Trade with EU

[Himaginn]

Then why is it not already doing so?

Because while within the EU the U.K. is trapped by the EU's regulations about trade with the rest of the world. Don't you understand that the EU doesn't only dictate how trade is carried out between member countries, but also how any one member country trades with the non-EU world? The EU even dictates how trade is carried out entirely within the U.K. Then they have the nerve to talk about "free trade."

So how come just over 50% of our exports go to non-EU countries. Do we not tell EU about them, or do we ask their permission?
Perhaps we smuggle them out, avoiding VAT regulations.

Or perhaps we trade with other non-EU countries under the trade agreements accorded to us as a member of EU. Which we'd have to renegotiate in the event of Brexit.
So your comment "the EU doesn't only dictate .. how any one member country trades with the non-EU world" should be re-phrased as "the EU facilitates how one member country trades with the non-EU world!"

Because the EU has negotiated trade agreements with these non-EU countries which automatically includes all the EU countries.
In the event of Brexit, we would also be exiting those trade agreements, so the trade with the non-EU countries could also be detrimentally affected.

 

[Slogger]

The biggest worry for us should be the EU allowing Turkey in ..Imagine if you will another 72 million people with the legal right to come to the UK ...Nope sorry out out out for me ...Thatll teach the Turk to make our transits eh

 

[PBC_1966]

So how come just over 50% of our exports go to non-EU countries. Do we not tell EU about them, or do we ask their permission?
Perhaps we smuggle them out, avoiding VAT regulations.

There is no VAT due on exports to non-EU countries anyway.

So your comment "the EU doesn't only dictate .. how any one member country trades with the non-EU world" should be re-phrased as "the EU facilitates how one member country trades with the non-EU world!"

Nice attempt at trying to make it sound as though the EU is helping, but I think everyone reading this will understand that the U.K. was trading with the rest of the world quite happily before the EU came along to "facilitate" such trade.

In the event of Brexit, we would also be exiting those trade agreements, so the trade with the non-EU countries could also be detrimentally affected.

Not if the U.K. came up with trade agreements with those countries which were more beneficial than the present EU arrangements.

 

[Himaginn]

So how come just over 50% of our exports go to non-EU countries. Do we not tell EU about them, or do we ask their permission?
Perhaps we smuggle them out, avoiding VAT regulations.

There is no VAT due on exports to non-EU countries anyway.

I think I've deduced your problem: you only read some of the words!
I didn't write: "Perhaps we smuggle them out, avoiding VAT." I wrote: "Perhaps we smuggle them out, avoiding VAT regulations."
Do you see the difference? There are still VAT regulations applying to trade with non-EU countries which have to be complied with.

So your comment "the EU doesn't only dictate .. how any one member country trades with the non-EU world" should be re-phrased as "the EU facilitates how one member country trades with the non-EU world!"

Nice attempt at trying to make it sound as though the EU is helping, but I think everyone reading this will understand that the U.K. was trading with the rest of the world quite happily before the EU came along to "facilitate" such trade.

I'm sure I don't need to post the "I'm backing Britain" link again, do I? It's a reminder of how badly we were doing prior to joining EU. When we did join we were the sick dog of Europe, by any political party's assessment.

In the event of Brexit, we would also be exiting those trade agreements, so the trade with the non-EU countries could also be detrimentally affected.

Not if the U.K. came up with trade agreements with those countries which were more beneficial than the present EU arrangements.

We've already explored and discussed this in great depth and detail!

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm sure I don't need to post the "I'm backing Britain" link again, do I? It's a reminder of how badly we were doing prior to joining EU. When we did join we were the sick dog of Europe, by any political party's assessment.

...but was that because we were not in the Common Market or due to the shameful British management prior to that?

Did Britain only recover because we joined the CM or would it have recovered anyway?

No one knows.

 

[JohnD]

...but was that because we were not in the Common Market or due to the shameful British management prior to that?

Please explain why you think that the quality of management suddenly improved.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Please explain why you think that the quality of management suddenly improved.

A lot of it became foreign.

 

[Himaginn]

Please explain why you think that the quality of management suddenly improved.

A lot of it became foreign.

I think you're speculating about speculation.
UK is the powerhouse of the global science fraternity, partly funded and staffed by EU and EU citizens.
This induces spin-off benefits for UK manufacturing, innovation, and commerce.

 

[Bosswhite]

I'm sure I don't need to post the "I'm backing Britain" link again, do I? It's a reminder of how badly we were doing prior to joining EU. When we did join we were the sick dog of Europe, by any political party's assessment.

...but was that because we were not in the Common Market or due to the shameful British management prior to that?

Did Britain only recover because we joined the CM or would it have recovered anyway?

No one knows.

It certainly wasnt down to Brucies Record ( even though the price of the record was lowered for patriotism) it never made the Hit Parade !!!

 

[JohnD]

"The idea that we could make better trade agreements on our own is simply arrogant and naive.

If there's one thing we've learnt from the last two months, it's that Cameron's bargaining power on the global arena is nowhere near as strong as he thinks.

The EU, and its 740 million consumers, is in a much better position to negotiate with the world than the UK alone (with just 64 million consumers). It's simple economics.

As for the 50% of our existing trade with the EU, we'll spend years negotiating the very same deal. And we'll still have to adhere to all the same rules.

What about China? Well, China's economy is haemorrhaging at the moment, dragging the entire world with it. Thank your lucky stars we're not tied more closely with this volatile giant.

And when China does come to the table, you better believe they're going to the 740 million consumers in Europe before us."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ben-brown/what-has-the-eu-ever-done_b_9262756.html

 

[PBC_1966]

UK is the powerhouse of the global science fraternity, partly funded and staffed by EU and EU citizens.

The funding which comes from the EU is just a small portion of the money which the U.K. paid into the EU in the first place, just like all the other things in the U.K. which are projects "generously funded by the EU."

 

[JohnD]

We have already established that it is impossible for every member of any organisation to receive more than they put in.

The UK is one of the more prosperous among the larger members now (before joining, the reverse was true) so it is unsurprising that we are a net contributor. However, we are not the largest contributor, by a long chalk, nor do we contribute the most per head.

It is ridiculous to want to be one of the poor countries that receives more grants and subsidies than they pay in.

 

[PBC_1966]

None of that alters the basic fact that in terms of funding for science or other projects the U.K. doesn't effectively receive anything from the EU, since it's putting more money in than it gets back. Without throwing money away into the EU, the U.K. would have more funding available for the projects.

 

[Himaginn]

None of that alters the basic fact that in terms of funding for science or other projects the U.K. doesn't effectively receive anything from the EU, since it's putting more money in than it gets back. Without throwing money away into the EU, the U.K. would have more funding available for the projects.

But the UK is the greatest beneficiary of EU science funding! Additionally UK benefits from the free movement of people so that EU citizens are free to add to UK's scientific research. Which, in turn adds to UK's industry and commerce, etc.

Moreover, you've reallocated the UK's contribution to EU several times over, to cover EU import tariffs, to cover loss in UK's GDP, to cover loss of tax revenue, to reimburse households, etc. How many more times are you going to reallocate this money?

 

[JohnD]

Interesting article on trade and tariffs here
https://m.facebook.com/groups/432752480128761?view=permalink&id=996414913762512

I don't think anybody can seriously deny that leaving the EU would cause severe damage to our international trade, even in those sectors, such as Financial Services, where we would have to commit to obeying EU regulations while having no power or influence to frame them.

The anti-EU campaigners try to flannel over this problem and suggest that by some kind of magic, everything would be all right. It wouldn't.