Travel? Perfectly clear.

Did Keegan spend all day saying the same nonsense to different people?

First interview, maybe fair enough, but to repeat the same; what does she think she is doing?

It's very painful to see a representative of the giverment repeating things that are not true.

"Are we allowed to go to France on holiday? "

"No."

"Is there legislation making it illegal?"

"No."

"So we are allowed to go to France on holiday. "

"Well yes, but guidance is that you should use your common sense."



Do we think she got the job by going stupid, or by being willing to lie to the public?
 
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Electric bike. :cool:
The e-bike is pedel asist, and stops at 16 MPH. Any other electric bike needs a licence. I have tried my wife's e-bike and yes you can double up hill speed, but Armaco barriers are still very dangerous, it is bad being hit by another vehicle, but being trapped by barriers is deadly, they should be banned on any shared roadway.
 
It's very painful to see a representative of the giverment repeating things that are not true.

"Are we allowed to go to France on holiday? "

"No."

"Is there legislation making it illegal?"

"No."

"So we are allowed to go to France on holiday. "

"Well yes, but guidance is that you should use your common sense."



Do we think she got the job by going stupid, or by being willing to lie to the public?
One of the problems is the UK government guidance makes no allowance for other country's policies.
E.g. you might legally be allowed to leave UK for a holiday in France. And the UK government will happily divulge that information.
But, will France allow you access for that reason?

So you have to work your way through the myriad of rules on UK policy, and repeat the exercise for the policy of the country that you wish to visit.

Then you have assess the rules for arriving in the foreign country, and abide by them, e.g. tests/vaccinations and confinement, and repeat that exercise for your return to the country of origin. By that time, you'll probably decide it ain't worth the hassle. You'll need a holiday to recover from the stress induced by your holiday.
 
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I don't understand how people are confused.

I see the usual "dim" people on here are the ones that are confused.

I think the problem is the government are relying on the general public to use their common sense, though tbh Im starting to think their is an awful lot of people that seem to lack this simple trait
 
I don't understand how people are confused.

I see the usual "dim" people on here are the ones that are confused.

I think the problem is the government are relying on the general public to use their common sense, though tbh Im starting to think their is an awful lot of people that seem to lack this simple trait
The situation is changing all the time. Not just due to Covid, but also due to Brexit.

Spain’s covid border controls: Spain reduces documents British nationals can use to enter country while border restrictions are in place
https://www.janetanscombe.com/news/spain-border-controls-covid.html
It's eminently possible to research the rules of your intended destination, make the reservations, etc, but by the time of your departure, the rules may have changed again.

Unfortunately common sense is not accepted documentation for entry into a foreign country.
 
Thanks Bobby, though as per usual your lack of common sense is once again shown.

Your dimness is highly visible today.

I didn't say common sense is acceptable paperwork.

One would assume that if one uses ones common sense, they would have the sense to check the latest travel requirements and documentation prior to departing to their destination.
 
I didn't say common sense is acceptable paperwork.

One would assume that if one uses ones common sense, they would have the sense to check the latest travel requirements and documentation prior to departing to their destination.
You said common sense is sufficient to replace regulations.


Of course that is sufficient. :rolleyes: They'd browse the regulations, (which isn't necessary because common sense is enough) for Covid and Brexit, for their departure country and arrival country for the opportunities to see what's possible.
Then they'd browse again before making the booking. And they'd check to see if there are any relation between the two, e.g. residents allowed entry but not foreigners. They'd also check to see what the cancellation conditions are, etc.
Then they'd check again before departure.
Then they'd check again before boarding.

Then, blooming 'eck, by the time they arrive the situation had changed en route. Who'd have thought it!
 
Thanks Bobby, though as per usual your lack of common sense is once again shown.

Your dimness is highly visible today.

I didn't say common sense is acceptable paperwork.

One would assume that if one uses ones common sense, they would have the sense to check the latest travel requirements and documentation prior to departing to their destination.

Common sense is a wolly term - does it have a basis in law?

The problem with your argument is that it leaves interpretation upto the individual or organisation and that is by design.

An example.

People who rebooked their holidays from last year are now being told by operators and airlines that they will not be getting refunds or changes because legally they are not being stopped from going on holiday - the Government provided guidance not legislation.

Insurance companies are saying your travel insurance will be void as they are they are interpreting the guidance in a more narrow view. Factor in countries may ask for proof of insurance cover on entry.

So where does commons sense stand there? Don't go and lose your money, do go and lose your insurance cover.

The Government as usual comes out with this mixed messaging to absolve themselves from responsibility. Strange when it came to handing out non compete contracts they were laser focused. This shows they know exactly what they are doing with their policy - it is not incompetence it is by design.
 
Common sense is,

Buy a coffee, common sense would say that that coffee would be hot and therefore caution should be taken when drinking it until it has cooled down slightly.

The general public these days need a warning sign on their coffee advising them it is hot.

How have we got down to this dumbed down state?

Is the public getting generally more stupid?

Another example

A saw has sharp blades and when used they cut, it's obvious why you are buying a saw, also it would be obvious that that saw has the potential to cause you bodily harm, but again the saw must have warnings plastered over it to advise that this may cause damage because there are buffoons out their that lack the common sense to think for themselves.

With this covid caper it's down to the individual, if they feel that they need to go on holiday for their own sanity or whatever then it would be expected that they carry out all precautions and are fully aware of the risks and the paperwork required.

This isn't a matter of law, it's a matter of whether people feel they need to go on holiday.

The government can't implement a complete ban on travel as it would decimate an industry that has already been severely affected by covid, there is also a while wider industry reliant on the travel industry aswell.

But at the same time the government can't say everyone is free to travel and Dona's they like because the likes of the guardian will lambast them even further and blame them for even more deaths etc etc.

So it's really no wonder the government advise is not black and white and it is being left to the individuals to make their own decisions.
 
Common sense is,

Buy a coffee, common sense would say that that coffee would be hot and therefore caution should be taken when drinking it until it has cooled down slightly.

The general public these days need a warning sign on their coffee advising them it is hot.

How have we got down to this dumbed down state?

Is the public getting generally more stupid?

Another example

A saw has sharp blades and when used they cut, it's obvious why you are buying a saw, also it would be obvious that that saw has the potential to cause you bodily harm, but again the saw must have warnings plastered over it to advise that this may cause damage because there are buffoons out their that lack the common sense to think for themselves.

With this covid caper it's down to the individual, if they feel that they need to go on holiday for their own sanity or whatever then it would be expected that they carry out all precautions and are fully aware of the risks and the paperwork required.

This isn't a matter of law, it's a matter of whether people feel they need to go on holiday.

The government can't implement a complete ban on travel as it would decimate an industry that has already been severely affected by covid, there is also a while wider industry reliant on the travel industry aswell.

But at the same time the government can't say everyone is free to travel and Dona's they like because the likes of the guardian will lambast them even further and blame them for even more deaths etc etc.

So it's really no wonder the government advise is not black and white and it is being left to the individuals to make their own decisions.

When you have a litigous environment - that's where you get the warnings on items - not because of a lack of common sense but because of lawyers seeing opportunity to litigate.

If the public as you argue are dumbed down - then why did we ask them for a referendum on such a huge issue such as Brexit?

If the public is misinformed then who is it fault? When politicians tell lies and the media push these lies - then who is at fault? Where are the instiutions we can rely on for facts? Why do they get drowned out?

The Government can give clearer guidance - so tell me in the situation where people cannot rebook and are told not to travel - what do they do?

As to the Guardian - straw man argument. On this list of media organisations that have had private meetings with Boris -can you find them?

https://bywire.news/articles/bbc-po...-october-2020-new-transparency-report-reveals

  • Daily Mail Owner, Lord Rothermere
  • New Corp Owner, Rupert Murdoch
  • Daily Mail Editor, Geordie Greig
  • News UK, Rebekah Brooks
  • The Telegraph Director of Content, Chris Evans
  • The Sun Deputy Editor in Chief, Keith Poole
  • The Sun Editor, Victoria Newton
  • The Sunday Telegraph Editor, Allister Heath
  • BBC Director of News & Current Affairs Fran Unsworth
  • BBC Chief Executive Officer, Tim Davie
  • The Sunday Times Editor, Emma Tucker
  • The Times Deputy Editor, Tony Gallagher
  • The Time Editor, John Witherow
  • The Spectator, Fraser Nelson
  • Daily Express Editor, Gary Jones
  • Daily Express Deputy Editor, Mick Booker
  • Financial Times, George Parker and Roula Khalaf
 
In answer to your common sense in law point.


Yes common sense is applied to law,

https://academic.oup.com/ojls/article-abstract/38/4/793/5108351?redirectedFrom=PDF

COMMON SENSE , med. jur. When a person possesses those perceptions, associations and judgments, in relation to persons and things, which agree with those of the generality of mankind, he is said to possess common sense. On the contrary, when a particular individual differs from the generality of persons in these respects, he is said not to have common sense, or not to be in his senses. 1 Chit. Med. Jur. 334.

So again how do you apply common sense to the scenario many people are finding themselve in - does common sense even apply?
 
Those that drive through traffic lights on red or amber are a danger to themselves and others.
Those that want to have a holiday in an amber listed country are also a danger to themselves and others.
Those that can not understand what the law and guidance mean are just looking for loopholes.
 
Common sense is a wolly term - does it have a basis in law?

your question was does common sense have a basis in law.

the factual and correct answer as i provided was yes it does have a basis in law.
 
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