Two gang FCU with outlets?

[FrodoOne]

Well our plug/socket arrangement is a right angle flex cord which I believe helps avoid pull out largely, probably leads to increased risk of socket contact area weakening slightly.

Well, "Side Entry" Australian plugs exist and are used quite often.
(https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-10a-top-side-entry-plug-white_p4330079 )
These also avoid "pull-out".

Australian Plugs termed as "Side Entry" actually have the Cable Entry point at the "4:30" (clock) position (67.5 °)
(See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Socket-Outlet_with_Side_Entry_Plugs.jpg )
This gives an advantage over other "Side Entry" plugs (such as BS 1363 or the Chinese "I" type), where the Cable Entry point is "downwards"
(180 ° or the "6 O'clock" position.)

Because of the diagonal "side" angle of "Cable Entry", Australian Socket-Outlets may be placed closer to a "Bench", corner or other surface below or to the side, without the cable being much impeded by such a surface.

https://www.hiddenwires.co.uk/news/...-universal-fully-recessed-power-and-av-outlet
gets over that UK problem by orientating the Socket-Outlet 22.5 ° to the Left, in a way similar to the way in which Australian Side-Entry" plugs are organized.

 

[ebee]

Frodo,
that is interesting.
Must admit the only ones I`ve actually noticed on Oz appliances have been the "pull out" type so I assumed that`s what they were, in fact I bought some as replacements for my daughter`s replacements out there, they still had lots of UK appliances so used with 4 gand UK trailing socket with an Oz plug on the lead, I did give them a pack of 10A 1363 fuses and told them to replace any UK plugtop fuses with them and especially any such 4 gang extension leads.
It did come into conversation a few months later and asked them "Did you replace the fuses with the ones I gave you?" . answer was No, they not needed the appliances work OK". I explained why they should really be changed but no doubt that never got done.
Well I am only a UK Electrician and this is Oz Electric which is different! LOL.

I have seen three of their fives different homes and they all had the consumer unit outside, I know it usually is sunshine wall to wall out there but they can get some real downpours on The Gold Coast (and Sunshine Coast) must be beggar to flick the breakers in such weather. LOL.

There first home was rented then they bought one, then a better etc, their latest home looks massive, don`t know if I`ll ever see it.

 

[FrodoOne]

There seems to be a different "mind set" between
the UK and North America
and
in Australia.
The function of a CU/Panel/Switchboard Circuit Breaker or Fuse is solely to protect the "wiring" within the walls of a building from being "overloaded".
It is not there to "protect" any appliance or external "lead" connected to an appropriately rated Socket-Outlet.
(However, some persons in the UK and North America seem to think otherwise.)

For various reasons, the UK decided to provide "Ring" circuits capable of supplying 32 A to Socket-Outlets capable of supplying only 13 A.
Hence, a 13 A (or lower rated) fuse was then required in the "Plug" inserted into these Socket-Outlets.

In Australia (NZ), the situation seems to be "so what" !
We do not need to protect equipment external to the wall!

If a fault occurs, it is likely that it will be a "short circuit" within an "appliance",
which is likely to have already destroyed the appliance, or parts of it,
where the current will be limited only by the resistance of the conductors involved - which will approach infinity.

"Standard" AU/NZ Socket-Outlets are rated at 10 A, on radial circuits "protected" by 20 A Circuit Breakers.
10A AU/NZ plugs can be inserted into Socket-Outlets rated at up to 32 A
(See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...cket_styles_for_different_current_ratings.jpg )

However, most people in Australia and New Zealand will never have seen a Socket-Outlet rated at more than 15 A,
used mainly for "Wall/Window" mounted Air Conditioners
and
at "Camping Grounds".

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Well, "Side Entry" Australian plugs exist and are used quite often.
(https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-10a-top-side-entry-plug-white_p4330079 )
These also avoid "pull-out".

Australian Plugs termed as "Side Entry" actually have the Cable Entry point at the "4:30" (clock) position (67.5 °)
(See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Socket-Outlet_with_Side_Entry_Plugs.jpg )
This gives an advantage over other "Side Entry" plugs (such as BS 1363 or the Chinese "I" type), where the Cable Entry point is "downwards"
(180 ° or the "6 O'clock" position.)

Because of the diagonal "side" angle of "Cable Entry", Australian Socket-Outlets may be placed closer to a "Bench", corner or other surface below or to the side, without the cable being much impeded by such a surface.

https://www.hiddenwires.co.uk/news/...-universal-fully-recessed-power-and-av-outlet
gets over that UK problem by orientating the Socket-Outlet 22.5 ° to the Left, in a way similar to the way in which Australian Side-Entry" plugs are organized.

Problem with cables that exit the plug at an angle, sods law will of course dictate that you actually want the cable to exit the other way ie left and not right.......

 

[EFLImpudence]

There seems to be a different "mind set" between
the UK and North America
and
in Australia.
The function of a CU/Panel/Switchboard Circuit Breaker or Fuse is solely to protect the "wiring" within the walls of a building from being "overloaded".
It is not there to "protect" any appliance or external "lead" connected to an appropriately rated Socket-Outlet.
(However, some persons in the UK and North America seem to think otherwise.)

It is precisely that: some persons think otherwise; that does not make it so.

 

[ebee]

I am not very aware of what they do in USA to the point of being fully conversant at least. I know they have the NEC whilst we have BS 7671 and Oz has something no doubt.

I do not see it in dispute that the breaker at the fusebox does much different in any of these systems unless someone can enlighten me otherwise.
I suspect we all sing from the same songsheet in this one or nearly so.
Someone will tell me if I am wrong, that`s the good thing about this forum etc.

Other countries do not like rings - I can well understand that, it is a peculiar concept and once you get to grips with it does work remarkably well and has stood the test of time, especially if a few simple rules are adhered to.

We in the Uk like to fuse down at the plugtop, really to protect the flex connected, the manufacturer protects his equipment somehow and if he decides that fuse is ok for such purpose as well and provided he takes into account the likelihood of someone actually might well put a 13A fuse in regardless then it sounds ok to me.

There are a few UK rules that rely more on the probability of something being very unlikely to happen even if it could actually happen in some instances.
Example - our limit on floor space served by power outlets (or type e.g. cooker circuit in a domestic setting) by floor space and type of area served.
It might be possible to plug in 50 x 3KW fan heaters into one ring or one radial all at the same time, but extremely unlikely in the real world.
We rely on sound engineering judgement.

My example of my daughters lot and the 10A fuses, I do not expect it to make much difference, if any at all, but could possibly do on the odd occasion

 

[EFLImpudence]

We in the Uk like to fuse down at the plugtop,

Hardly a question of 'like'.

really to protect the flex connected,

Exactly

the manufacturer protects his equipment somehow and if he decides that fuse is ok for such purpose as well and provided he takes into account the likelihood of someone actually might well put a 13A fuse in regardless then it sounds ok to me.

What?

 

[ebee]

the manufacturer protects his equipment somehow and if he decides that fuse is ok for such purpose as well and provided he takes into account the likelihood of someone actually might well put a 13A fuse in regardless then it sounds ok to me.

"What?"

The way I see it is.
The manufacturer is for ensuring that the correct fuse size protects the flex.
If he decides he can rely, in part, to the fuse giving some protection to his appliance, that might be fine but he might well have to place some reliance if it is a 13A fuse on an appliance that he states should have a 3A (or 5A) fuse in for example.

In short, the fuse must protect the flex (I think we both agree on that one) and he has to have some means of applying some form of protection for the appliance (example , the appliance has internal fuses/trips or current limiters) .

If he recommends it uses a 13A plug (and nowadays this must be included on the appliance anyway) could he rely on that plug fuse giving adequate protection to his actual appliance, in part or in full?

Obviously people can remove such plug and wire it up to the 100A domestic fuse after the electric meter if they want to but he can not be blamed for any damage caused by that surely?

Someone once told me that Black and Decker mains drills are child proof, it is safe to give a toddler because if they try to drill thru the back of their hand then the drill will burn out without damaging the child - I do not think he had much respect for the strength of Black and Decker drills

 

[EFLImpudence]

The manufacturer is for ensuring that the correct fuse size protects the flex.

That will be why he fits the fuse in the moulded pug. Is it ever other than 13A.

On UK 32A socket circuits, do you think the fuse is actually necessary for, for example, a kettle?

If he decides he can rely, in part, to the fuse giving some protection to his appliance, that might be fine but he might well have to place some reliance if it is a 13A fuse on an appliance that he states should have a 3A (or 5A) fuse in for example.

So, do you think manufactures manufacture their products differently depending on whether they are intended for Dover or Calais?

In short, the fuse must protect the flex (I think we both agree on that one)

Yes, so do you think the flex will be different (inferior) when intended for 13A in the UK plugs and 16A for other places' circuits?

and he has to have some means of applying some form of protection for the appliance (example , the appliance has internal fuses/trips or current limiters) .

Of course it will - and if it doesn't then it is not required.

If he recommends it uses a 13A plug (and nowadays this must be included on the appliance anyway) could he rely on that plug fuse giving adequate protection to his actual appliance, in part or in full?

Surely that depends on the appliance and if the answer is "No" then he will fit one that does.

Obviously people can remove such plug and wire it up to the 100A domestic fuse after the electric meter if they want to but he can not be blammed for any damage caused by that surely

Of course not, and probably neither will he care - oh might sell another appliance.