Tyre tax anyone?
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EV's almost always wear tyres out quicker than I.C cars. They have considerably higher torque outputs from zero rpm often run with narrow tyres. Conversely their brakes last considerably longer due to the regen system meaning less need for braking to slow the vehicle down. The tyre wear situation is much worse in, for example Tesla's as they tend to have very high outputs compared to other EV's. Our company cars are getting through tyres on drive axles in less than 10,000 miles which is less than half that from the "traditional" BMW 520D fleet cars. Tyre wear on the newer EV's from various manufacturers is also becoming noticeable and this is likely due to them also having very powerful motors. Something like a Kia EV6 even has 225hp as its base model and the higher powered ones can do 0-60mph in 3.5 seconds. This places a huge amount of wear on the tyres........
Going slightly OT in my own thread, I do wonder how this (the powerful nature/torque of EVs) will fit into the medium-longer term strategy of government when it comes to vehicles, especially cars. It wouldn't surprise me if legislation is passed x years down the line limiting the acceleration (0-60 if you like) of these vehicles.
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I doubt the performance is too much of a concern (although time will tell) as most of the vehicles that do have the very high outputs also have some very advance driver safety aids, especially the Tesla's. These aids will continue to get more sophisticated and are also likely to communicate with embedded roadside infrastructure (National Highways are now investing heavily in such technology). It is likely that within a few years, it will be almost impossible to crash a car.....
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Yeah I get what you're saying, however it won't surprise me if there's an increasing narrative to 'slow us down' ... for environmental reasons you understand
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The daft thing is, the trend for extreme high power outputs was started by Tesla and is, possibly, a marketing ploy to win over EV's. I reckon the trend will gradually fade though because rather than spend £70 k on a car that has two or even three motors and goes incredibly fast, people would rather spend less and save weight/copper/silicon on a car that goes further on a single charge. The single biggest concern over EV's is range and that is closely followed by battery longevity/replacement cost.Yeah I get what you're saying, however it won't surprise me if there's an increasing narrative to 'slow us down' ... for environmental reasons you understand
If you have long range then you get the ability to supply lots of power as a byproduct. If you have the current available then the motor powerful enough to use it isn't much more expensive or heavy than one that can only do 0-60 in 10 seconds. And it was a deliberate marketing/brand differentiation choice.
Do you have any experience on battery degradation? On that the stats are pretty clear and that it isn't a big deal.
Four little patches of rubber are all that is preventing 2 tonnes-plus from binning it.
On most UK roads, there is barely enough room for a vehicle when it is under control.
And the chances that even more than a very few percent of the UK road network would be updated enough to make crashing "impossible"........?
IMHO.
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It is possibly unfair to bring up the Nissan Leaf but that is a car well known for severe battery degradation. moving to the other end of the EV scale though I follow Gruber Motors and their Youtube channel and as well as more Tesla batteries failing it highlights the attitude of manufacturers these days that even cars are "throw away" items with components such as batteries being regarded as non serviceable if they fail.
Because, economically, they are "non-serviceable".
Doesn't mean they can't / won't be repurposed though.
The leaf is the exception, and for the dodgy batteries it was only a few generations that were bad. AFAIK they are the only manufacturer to not use liquid cooling for their batteries.
For all my respect for Tesla and what they've achieved I'm more likely to by a leaf than a Tesla for my next car.
It is but there is no reason they have to be like that. Some hybrids have been produced where the main aim seems to be higher acceleration rates.
This goes into power used with acceleration - bit noddy
How EV Range Is Affected By Quick Acceleration - CleanTechnica
I was recently involved in a discussion about the effect of levels of acceleration an electric vehicle range. This was below one of the articles on CleanTechnica. I was arguing that heavy acceleration will reduce range, while another person was saying that it made no difference whatsoever.
cleantechnica.com
The losses he mention include I^2R on both the battery and the motor but they don't last for long. The vehicle needs to be able to travel at max speed for significant periods of time. On that basis that power level could also be used for acceleration.
High range EV's appear to weigh more than similar IC. Use of high acceleration levels. That and weight influence tyre wear however it's powered.
Mass market EV's. Say an owner can charge at home for 12hrs using all of their mains supply every day. That's 240x80x12= ~230kw hrs. LOL I wonder if the streets will take that when all have it. A grid man on TV reckoned on that an EV was the equivalent of adding another house to the grid. This gives some typical measure kw hour figure per mile so could be compared with our electricity bills also use that to calc costs
Tesla Model 3: Efficient On Paper, But Really Depends On The Driver
This study shows that EVs that aren't as efficient as Tesla's may be more efficient in the real world thanks to different driving styles and other factors.
insideevs.com
I can't look at my bills. Wife looks after them and don't know where they are. I'd have to askThere are chargers around that monitor house usage and divert some level to battery charging. Seems to be the preferred type
The price cap is £0.51 per kw hour, standing charge £0.53 per day. Average annual bill. Standing charge anyway ') untless they up it for higher rates.
Ofgem estimates the typical household in Britain uses 2,900 kWh of electricity and 12,000 kWh of gas in a year.
Our grid can cope with that.
Say 100 miles a day using the higher Tesla consumption figure 3.4miles /kwh = 29.4kwh/day. Say 50x5 days/ year = 7,353kwh per year. Cost 7,353x0.51=£3,750. Range achieved 25,000 miles. Say 35mpg - 714 gallons = 3,246L cost £4,804 at £1.48/L
The maybe 230kwh available from the house - A range of 230x3.4=`700 miles - losses. That is one of the main factors that interests me but a 13amp plug would be a different matter. I have seen work on a high efficancy portable EV changer. 13amps and a unity power factor - few plugs would take it. 700x13/80 if it did. 113miles. That was with a 200v or so battery pack.
Found some info on a Type2 EV plug that can do 3 or single phase
Technical SpecificationCharging typeMode 3, Type 2Charging power 7.4 kW on single-phaseRated current32 A/16 ARated frequency50 HzInput/output voltage230 V+-10%: L1, N, PENetwork typeTT, TNRCDIntegrated 6mA DC + 30mA AC leakage detectionProtectionOvercurrent, overvoltage, undervoltage, ground fault including DC residual current protection, integrated surge protectionPME fault detection Incorporated within the unit
This one monitors house current. 7kw or 22kw if 3 phase is available. 7kw,12h - 84kwh=285miles. Only reduced electricity rate I have noticed is for 5hrs. 7kw ~ 29amps. Ok for a 32amp plug.
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All corrected - I thinkLooks like 50miles a day is roughly = to one house.
Interesting recent comment. Currently no point in adding more wind as no cables to get it where it's needed. Arguments about pylons against under sea routes, A bit about buried cables. I wonder what a mechanical moled tunnel and liners costs
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Of interest
www.cable.co.uk
Worldwide Electricity Pricing | Energy Cost Per KWh in 230 Countries
Cable.co.uk has gathered data from 3883 energy tariffs across the globe to compile the most complete league table of global consumer energy pricing yet.
www.cable.co.uk
You've calculated for 1,000 miles a day rather than 100.It is but there is no reason they have to be like that. Some hybrids have been produced where the main aim seems to be higher acceleration rates.
This goes into power used with acceleration - bit noddy
How EV Range Is Affected By Quick Acceleration - CleanTechnica
I was recently involved in a discussion about the effect of levels of acceleration an electric vehicle range. This was below one of the articles on CleanTechnica. I was arguing that heavy acceleration will reduce range, while another person was saying that it made no difference whatsoever.
The losses he mention include I^2R on both the battery and the motor but they don't last for long. The vehicle needs to be able to travel at max speed for significant periods of time. On that basis that power level could also be used for acceleration.
High range EV's appear to weigh more than similar IC. Use of high acceleration levels. That and weight influence tyre wear however it's powered.
Mass market EV's. Say an owner can charge at home for 12hrs using all of their mains supply every day. That's 240x80x12= ~230kw hrs. LOL I wonder if the streets will take that when all have it. A grid man on TV reckoned on that an EV was the equivalent of adding another house to the grid. This gives some typical measure kw hour figure per mile so could be compared with our electricity bills also use that to calc costs
Tesla Model 3: Efficient On Paper, But Really Depends On The Driver
This study shows that EVs that aren't as efficient as Tesla's may be more efficient in the real world thanks to different driving styles and other factors.
There are chargers around that monitor house usage and divert some level to battery charging. Seems to be the preferred type
The price cap is £0.51 per kw hour, standing charge £0.53 per day. Average annual bill
Ofgem estimates the typical household in Britain uses 2,900 kWh of electricity and 12,000 kWh of gas in a year.
Our grid can cope with that. Say 100 miles a day using the higher Tesla consumption figure 3.4miles /kwh = 340kwh/day. Say 50x5 days/ year = 85,000kwh per year. Cost 85,000x0.51=£43,359. Range achieved 25,000 miles. Say 35mpg - 714 gallons = 3,246L cost £4,804 at £1.48/L
The fuel cost relates to 9,420 kwh = 2,770 miles
230kwh max from mains = ~67 miles / day. Annual consumption due to that 57,000kwh.
Have I made any brain farts?
No wonder they want to talk about MPGe.
Wind power. Interesting recent comment. Currently no point in adding more as no cables to get it where it's needed.
The price cap is 34p per kWh now, assuming you're not using an EV tariff or E7. Heavy EV users charge overnight at cheaper rates. Octopus go down to 12p for overnight charging.
You've also ignored charging losses which boosts the cost up by around 10%.
I decided to ignore that as it varies according to battery type.
Just did some work on new speakers for the TV so may well spot my extra zero now.,Interesting exercise any way especially in terms of the grid man's comment. The other aspect is missing power lines. Currently being argued about - how to route them. I wonder if there is a trench digging cable laying machine about. Pylons and undersea being debated.
Edit
Hang on 3.4kwh / mile does mean 340kwh / 100miles.
Id didn't need a calculator for that. 50 weeks a year 5 days commute = 250 day Crap holiday job. 250x340=85,000. at 12p per kwh = £10,200 against £4800 for fuel.
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