Ultimate Heating System

[Prem]

Hi, recently purchased a 4-bed detached property.

Looking for a top notch heating / plumbing solution.

Requirements:

Underfloor heating - 10 individually temperature controlled zones
Radiators - 4 - can be same zone
Underfloor heating and hot water in external log cabin (about 100 feet away).
Mains pressure hot and cold in the whole house.
Pumped shower 4 bar Stuart Turner.
2 boilers in cascade if possible (in case 1 breaks down).

Started looking at Atag boilers but installers for these appear scarce and their website truly sucks.

Will probably use Vaillant as they've never caused me any issues.

With regards to mains pressure hot water, was considering the MegaFlo unvented cylinder and a MageLife vented cylinder for the pumped shower.

No thought yet about the underfloor heating and different zones, or about the 2 boilers.

Also considering a thermal store instead of the 2 cylinders, but would appreciate some feedback.

Any one got any ideas of what boiler, underfloor heating controls, water cylinders to use?

I am starting from scratch so am flexible.

I have a loft which can accomodate a cold water tank.

I really love my shower so it has to be a pumped solution.

Oh and, ideally, I want to connect to the boilers using my PC and be able to control the heating from my PC and the internet or iphone!

 

[mrgas]

Sounds to me like you already know what you want.
Are you an installer?

 

[electronicsuk]

Why the need for a vented cylinder and pumped shower? If, as it seems, money is no object, you should be able to afford a large unvented cylinder coupled with either an accumulator or an upgraded water supply to the property in larger bore pipe. With 22mm+ pipework this will easily provide you a shower on par with anything you can achieve with a pumped vented system.

As for controls, you might want to take a look at Heatmiser. This meets all your requirements for control of individual zones and networking.

As you want the 'ultimate' system, you will probably also want a secondary recirculation loop to provide instant HW to all outlets.

The rest of your concerns can be taken care of by your installer. It'll be interesting trying to find someone you trust to to take all this on...

 

[transam]

Sounds to me like you already know what you want.
Are you an installer?

Would'nt surprise me , or a builder/ property developer , who ever price's for this would need to put in a hefty sum to cover for the inevitable aggro , that will occur !!!

 

[D_Hailsham]

You didn't, by any chance, win £50million on the Lottery recently?

What benefit do you think you will get from ten separately controlled zones?

 

[electronicsuk]

You didn't, by any chance, win £50million on the Lottery recently?

What benefit do you think you will get from ten separately controlled zones?

To be fair, I can see the point. I fitted 11 zones in my old house, each with their own programmable stat and a central control pad. Saves no end of money not having to run the heating at full blast in the rooms you're not using.

And before someone steps in and mentions TRVs, yes, that's one way around the problem - but I'm too lazy to start fiddling with them all the time, having the whole system controlled automatically is much easier.

Whether or not it will ever pay for itself is another question, as I must have spent as much on controls as I did the boiler. I'm just a bit of a geek at heart.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I fitted 11 zones in my old house, each with their own programmable stat and a central control pad. Saves no end of money not having to run the heating at full blast in the rooms you're not using.

Did you also fit closers to every door to make sure they were only open if someone was going in and out of the room?

If doors are left open the rooms eventually settle down to a common temperature. Heat will filter upstairs and from the warmer areas to the colder until balance is achieved. The rads upstairs may be off but the room will still get warmer.

 

[CharteredEngineer]

just wondering why you need a cascade, seems like true overkill to me but if thats what you want!

As others have mentioned an unvented cylinder and large bore pipework but be as good if not better option than a vented system, but depends on your pressure.

 

[Prem]

No, I haven't won the lottery - just want to do it 'properly'.

No, I am not an installer, just a gadget freak.

The reason for the unvented cylinder as well as an unvented for the shower is because most of the nice designer taps nowadays require high pressure - they will just not work with a vented cylinder.

But, I also enjoy my showers and it has to be pumped independently - if someone else in the house flushes the loo or washes their hands, I do not want to feel this whilst in the shower.

What is an accumulator?

How does the hot water return work?

Sorry for the questions - these are new to me.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

If anybody knows a good plumber in the Essex area, let me know ...

 

[mickyg]

What part of essex?

 

[muggles]

A 4-bed detached, generally speaking, isn't really big enough to warrant a two-boiler cascade, one will be sufficient, if you choose a good make then breakdowns will be extremely infrequent, you'd be much better off saving your money and buying a few electric fan heaters to keep you going until the boiler is repaired. Having said that, it's your money...

ATAG boilers are excellent, as you say registered installers are hard to come by but a good Gas Safe engineer should make just as good a job of it. Vaillant generally make good boilers but their backup isn't very good. Also take a look at Broag-Remeha and Viessmann. Whichever you go for, get weather compensation for best results.


I see no reason to install a pumped shower, an unvented cylinder will give you 3 bar pressure and as much flow as your mains can handle, and you'll get a very good shower from that. You can always look at getting your main upgraded if the supply is currently insufficient. I'd recommend going for 32mm if you do upgrade, the cost over 25mm is very little. I really don't think, especially with 32mm, that you'd notice another outlet operating at the same time as your shower, and the cost of installation could be about the same as the second cylinder, pump and associated extra pipework.

Look at OSO Super S cylinders, probably the easiest, fastest and therefore cheapest cylinder on the market to install, a correct installation will result in almost no pipework showing, faster heat-up and recovery times than a Megaflo, no problems with loss of air gap and you should find it's cheaper to purchase too. Fitting a hot (secondary) return will mean virtually instantaneous hot water at all taps in the house. It works by continually pumping a small amount of hot water around a loop in the house.



For complete control systems, look at Heatmiser, they should do everything you want.

Hope this helps

 

[muggles]

EDIT: oops, quoted myself there!

 

[Corgigrouch]

The customer always wants his ideal heating and plumbing system, until he gets the quote....Then all you hear is "Errm, well how much would if be if we only had one cylinder/ boiler/ whatever"

 

[Prem]

What part of essex?

Chigwell.

 

[Prem]

The customer always wants his ideal heating and plumbing system, until he gets the quote....Then all you hear is "Errm, well how much would if be if we only had one cylinder/ boiler/ whatever"

LOL!!

Too true!! Especially with some of the labour charges being charged. I reckon, some plumbers are charging over £1000/daily for labour.

I am simply mentioning my ideal system. Some of them may not be too practical (like the 2 boilers) and some may be silly money, hence my seeking advise.

Anyway, in my current house, I already have a fairly good system e.g. 3 pumps (hot, cold, shower twin), zones with a lot of attention to detail like minium use of elbows, full bore stopcocks, etc so I have a fair idea of the cost.

So with the new house, I want to go up a level.