Ultimate Heating System

[Prem]

I fitted 11 zones in my old house, each with their own programmable stat and a central control pad. Saves no end of money not having to run the heating at full blast in the rooms you're not using.

Did you also fit closers to every door to make sure they were only open if someone was going in and out of the room?

If doors are left open the rooms eventually settle down to a common temperature. Heat will filter upstairs and from the warmer areas to the colder until balance is achieved. The rads upstairs may be off but the room will still get warmer.

Normally doors are open, but at night time, we close the bedroom doors.

The main reason for the zones is how the house is laid out. Also have a conservatory which will require additional heating due to the extremely large glass area. In addition to this, the kitchen needs to have its own zone as when cooking starts, it gets really stuffy.

Having zones will also let me tinker with the controls - like occupancy detection - if no movement is detected for an hour in a bedroom during the daytime, then the temperature will drop, etc.

 

[Corgigrouch]

I'm not entirely sure that Underfloor would react quickly enough...

 

[Garfeild]

£1000 daily for labour !!!! youve been reading "The Sun" too have you?

 

[Prem]

Sounds to me like you already know what you want.
Are you an installer?

would'nt surprise me , or a builder/ property developer , who ever price's for this would need to put in a hefty sum to cover for the inevitable aggro , that will occur !!!

Where's your positive mental attitude??!!

This is a challenge. It will work.

No, I'm not a builder or property developer. In fact, I'm not even in the building trade. I work in IT.

I love doing high-tech projects and this is just one of them.

The whole house will be a high-tech project for me. For once, I have the luxury of having an empty house and no pressure to move in. I'll be doing even more with the electrical and lighting system and whole house audio/video, security - out of scope for this forum.

I haven't even mentioned that I want to be able to control my heating system using an iphone (haven't got one but need to get one of these) from anywhere in the world.

 

[Prem]

I'm not entirely sure that Underfloor would react quickly enough...

Fair point - will bear that in mind. May help me reduce some zones then!!

 

[mehran]

it sounds like Honeywells hometronic may be right up your street then:

http://www.sensibleheat.co.uk/honeywell-hometronic-manager.htm

 

[muggles]

I'm not entirely sure that Underfloor would react quickly enough...

Agreed, underfloor takes a few hours to really do anything, you'd be much better off with radiators fitted with good-quality thermostatic valves that will react to the change in room temperature when cooking starts. Electronically-controlled digital TRVs are now available although IMHO they look ugly as they're quite large. There's an example of them shown on the Hometronic page given above by Mehran

 

[Prem]

ATAG boilers are excellent, as you say registered installers are hard to come by but a good Gas Safe engineer should make just as good a job of it.

The reason for looking for an Atag approved installer is the warranty - I believe it is extended when fitted by an installer approved by them.

I may have to look at the Vaillant option - they're not bad either.

 

[mickyg]

send me an email(in profile) with details if you want me to take a look. I'm one of the few atag installers covering east herts/west essex.
mick

 

[Corgigrouch]

I work in IT.

Ah! Enough said.... The last person you should EVER allow near technology is an IT guy.... It'll never work right again....

Most of us here would love to work on stuff that is unique and challenging, unfortunately the cold hard world of making a living gets in the way... Fitting a heating system and usual controls is stuff that we can do in our sleep (Some of my work looks like I was asleep when I fitted it), but this boring stuff is a known factor, we know how long a job will take and most of the likely pitfalls are already anticipated..... work that is bespoke is really fun to do, but it does take longer to study and install equipment that we are not familiar with and so this makes it difficult to quote for with any accuracy and so we are always wise to over quote to allow for the stuff that we just cannot anticipate. Last bespoke job that I worked on, I was the third installer, the other two walked off the job because the customer kept changing his mind over how the controls were to work and wanted it integrated in to the programmable electrical system.... God knows why he wanted it.

The hardest part for me is not understanding what the customer wants, but why on earth he wants it........

 

[Prem]

I work in IT.

Ah! Enough said.... The last person you should EVER allow near technology is an IT guy.... It'll never work right again....

Most of us here would love to work on stuff that is unique and challenging, unfortunately the cold hard world of making a living gets in the way... Fitting a heating system and usual controls is stuff that we can do in our sleep (Some of my work looks like I was asleep when I fitted it), but this boring stuff is a known factor, we know how long a job will take and most of the likely pitfalls are already anticipated..... work that is bespoke is really fun to do, but it does take longer to study and install equipment that we are not familiar with and so this makes it difficult to quote for with any accuracy and so we are always wise to over quote to allow for the stuff that we just cannot anticipate. Last bespoke job that I worked on, I was the third installer, the other two walked off the job because the customer kept changing his mind over how the controls were to work and wanted it integrated in to the programmable electrical system.... God knows why he wanted it.

The hardest part for me is not understanding what the customer wants, but why on earth he wants it........

LOL!!!

Thanks for the vote of confidence in IT wallahs!!!!

You sound like an installer in need of a challenge to keep you awake.

If you cover the Chigwell area, this is probably right up your street.

In all seriousness, I know what you are saying.

With my current house, I wanted 3 pumps and some not so standard heating controls and stuff - I designed it. The first 2 plumbers never came back. The third one agreed to do the work to my design - the brief was I would tell him what to connect and he would look out for the installer's point of view i.e. gas safety, etc.

To be honest, it worked out really well (trying not to brag). For example, my shower is simply stunning. My family and I really miss it whenever we go on holiday (this sometimes includes some really posh hotels). There has never been any issue of any sort with any of the heating or plumbing.

With this in mind, I am spending a lot of time designing the heating/plumbing system for my new house.

I will try and ensure that it is do-able and will not change my mind as I know what I already want.

Fingers crossed that it all goes properly!!

 

[Corgigrouch]

LOL, it does sound like a fun job but I live in the land of the onyx coffee table... Your shower sounds like something that Indiana Jones would run from............

 

[Norcon]

Don't know about the ultimate heating system but this is the ultimate heating controller below IMO........This was installed on an 6500 sq/ft property with a single ,simple oil boiler.
I would pay attention to what the guys are telling you on here.
Particulary regarding individual zoning to separate rooms.
If you need a large house then it usually follows that you have a large family (or intending on having a large one) and occupancy should rule out any need for individual room zoning.
The guy who installed this controller ran the entire UFH system from one mixer valve with the only zoning being the capability to shut down the bedrooms with the manifold actuaters.
This is common on all his installs.
The most recent one we did though he conceded that the use of a second mixer valve may have been more beneficial.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I fitted 11 zones in my old house, each with their own programmable stat and a central control pad. Saves no end of money not having to run the heating at full blast in the rooms you're not using.

Did you also fit closers to every door to make sure they were only open if someone was going in and out of the room? ...

Normally doors are open, but at night time, we close the bedroom doors.

I was actually directing my question at "electronicsuk", but the same thing will apply to you.

If you leave the doors open during the day, there is no point in controlling the temperature in individual rooms/areas. The heat will flow from the warmer area to the cooler until the temperatures have equalised. It just means that the rads etc which is on will have to work harder to produce enough heat to make up for the rads etc which are off.

As the heating is off at night, closing the bedroom doors will not make any difference.

Even if the door to a room is closed during the day, heat will still permeate through the walls into the room from adjacent hotter areas. The rate of heat loss can be quite high as the U-value of internal partitions is relatively high compared with external walls. For example, a typical stud wall with plasterboard and plaster either side has a U-value of 1.7, while new-build houses must have a maximum U value of 0.35 on the external walls.

If the external and internal temperatures are -1C and 20C the rate of loss on the external wall is 21 x 0.35 = 7.35 watts/sq meter. The inside partition, with a U-value of 1.7 will loose heat at the same rate when the temperature difference is 7.35 ÷ 1.7 ≈ 4C, i.e when the colder room is at about 16C.

 

[Agile]

The main reason for the zones is how the house is laid out. Also have a conservatory which will require additional heating due to the extremely large glass area. In addition to this, the kitchen needs to have its own zone as when cooking starts, it gets really stuffy.

Why will a simply TRV on the kitchen rads not control the kitchen heating???

How can anyone have much confidence in IT when Microsoft designed such a dreadful system as the Vista? And worse sold it across the world?

I noticed a seller anvertised a laptop with Vista and an upgrade at additional cost to the earlier XP !

Its interesting that you have had such difficulty getting plumbers to work for you.

Tony