Ultimate Heating System

Ha! If Vista is to be the OS for the ultimate heating system, then a boiler of similar quality should be fitted.... Ideal anyone?

My laptop came with Vista, this quickly got dumped for XP..... The more they try to overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to block up the drains.... Montgomery Scott
 
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Hi Prem,


The only problem I see with your plan is the pumped shower.
I would fit the accumilator and have your bathroom on separate feeds from the other bathrooms. We've done a few of those and you won't have any pressure drop in your shower, (provided your main is good in the first place).

it is the norm to have multiple zones for the UFH, you'll have independent actuators for each loop anyway.

For the hot water circulation, have the pump on a separate timer.
If you have hot water circulation you also have the option of having the towel radiators on that circuit, giving you warm towels in the summer when the heating is off. If you do, make sure the towel radiators are rust free, (will cost you a bit more though).

Lolli
 
If you want to chuck a lot of money at a PC-based control system, I'd suggest you look at a BMS system, e.g.,

https://www.trendcontrols.com/en-GB/products/Pages/default.aspx

See IQ3xcite web-enabled controllers.

These are commercial controllers, but have been installed in top-end housing. The supervisor, head-end software is usually expensive, but there was a compatible system called Doorways (I think ) which was relatively cheap (£400 last I looked). The BMS controllers have to be programmed from scratch, so a big part of the cost is the programming. They can control or monitor anything, given enough inputs, outputs and programming. They are similar to the electronic controller which control most car engines, but rescheduling typically once every second. My BMS experience was limited to the earlier Trend IQ 100 and 200 series controllers so you'd need to contact a few System Integrators (BMS contractors) and see what's available now; see list on the Trend website.

I've had IQ 100 series controllers (from early 90s, so a fossil in IT terms) controlling a house and it was the best control system I've ever used. The contractors tend to download standard solutions from their laptops and disappear, but it is useful if you can get access to (and understand) the configuration.
 
I fitted 11 zones in my old house, each with their own programmable stat and a central control pad. Saves no end of money not having to run the heating at full blast in the rooms you're not using.
Did you also fit closers to every door to make sure they were only open if someone was going in and out of the room? ...
Normally doors are open, but at night time, we close the bedroom doors.
I was actually directing my question at "electronicsuk", but the same thing will apply to you. ;)

If you leave the doors open during the day, there is no point in controlling the temperature in individual rooms/areas. The heat will flow from the warmer area to the cooler until the temperatures have equalised. It just means that the rads etc which is on will have to work harder to produce enough heat to make up for the rads etc which are off.

You rang? :LOL:

Indeed, there is no doubt that the efficiency of the system would be reduced by leaving doors open. However, they are generally kept closed to minimise heat loss into adjacent rooms. All stud partitions and ceiling voids in the house are insulated.

Even so, it is true that there is still a measurable increase in temperature caused by running the heating in adjacent rooms, but they certainly aren't anywhere near as warm as the rooms where the heating is running. This would suggest that there is indeed an energy saving to be had, as the cooler rooms will have a lower temperature differential between room and outdoor temperature, hence lower heat loss through windows and walls.

Not to mention that everyone gets exactly the temperature they want in their room. I've never been happy with TRVs in providing a well-regulated room temperature.

No, I am not an installer, just a gadget freak.

It's an expensive hobby, isn't it? :LOL:

But, I also enjoy my showers and it has to be pumped independently - if someone else in the house flushes the loo or washes their hands, I do not want to feel this whilst in the shower.

With correct pipework sizes and layout, this wouldn't be a problem. You don't see your water pressure reduce when your neighbours flushes their toilet, after all.

What is an accumulator?

A pressure vessel, similar to the expansion vessel fitted to sealed boilers and unvented cylinders. One side contains water, which is then separated by a diaphragm with an air bubble on the other side. When water demand is low the accumulator is charged by the mains water pressure, and when demand is high such that it cannot be met by the incoming mains, water is released from the vessel.

How does the hot water return work?

The hot water system is run in a loop, returning to the HW cylinder. A bronze pump continuously circulates hot water around the loop, so that the only delay in getting HW to the taps is the small dead legs where the outlets are tee'd from the loop. As these aren't ever likely to be more than a metre in length, HW can be thought of as instant.
 
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Thanks for all your comments everyone. I had a lot to digest and understand.

More questions though:

It's to do with choosing between have an unvented cylinder for the whole house (minus shower) plus a vented cylinder for the shower or having just one Heat bank.

I understand that I can easily run the mains pressure hot water, radiator heating and underfloor heating from the heat bank but what about a shower pump?

I will be having at least 1 Stuart Turner 4.5 bar pump to start off with but will probably end up with 2 of them (lavish wet room in mind). Will a heat bank be able to provide this quantity of hot water (through the heat exchanger) or is the vented cylinder the best way to go.

I'm quite liking the heat bank idea because it means I only need to install 1 cylinder and can feed in 2 boilers easily if I wanted to (or solar). Also, for underfloor heating, I can take cooler water from the middle of the heat bank and the boiler return can be from the bottom so as to increase it's efficiency.

The only potential issue is the shower pumps. Anybody have any experience with heat banks and shower pumps?
 
Why the need for a vented cylinder and pumped shower? If, as it seems, money is no object, you should be able to afford a large unvented cylinder coupled with either an accumulator or an upgraded water supply to the property in larger bore pipe. With 22mm+ pipework this will easily provide you a shower on par with anything you can achieve with a pumped vented system.

Excuse me if this answer is already somewhere in this thread, it's quite long!

What's an accumulator? I've only ever seen these in relation to solid fuel appliances.
 
AN acumulator is a way of storing mains water via a large exp vessel , it is reliant on kinetic energy (water energy)only , e'g no pumps ect & increase's the flow rate of the main's supply , look at G.A.H website , not sure about the solid fuel comment's ??
 
Thanks! Maybe what I thought was an accumulater actually wasn't one.

What came accross was a small copper tank (about the size of the copper header tank on an old boilermate) beneath an indirect cylinder, it had loads of connections to and from it with a few pipe stat set to about 90. The cust said it was something to do with a solid fuel appliance, i wasn't working on it so didn't need to look into it. I pressume it was some sort of excess heat dump.

Sorry that's a little vaugue, it was several years ago.
 

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