'Unhelpful posts' ??

[blup]

There is a certain irony that this thread is one of the most on topic threads here

 

[securespark]

Yes, I've heard that before, and I believe that prior to the standardisation because of railways, most large cities in the UK had their 'own time'.

Ironically, although that pre-railways situation would clearly be very inconvenient/unworkable in the modern word,it presumably meant that, back then, "noon" was, in many cases, probably closer to 12:00 ("midday"? ) (in 'local clock time') then than it is now!

Kind Regards, John

Noon comes from Latin for nine.

Originally Midday was 15:00, as it was nine hours from the monks' time of rising (6:00).

 

[Odds]

There is a certain irony that this thread is one of the most on topic threads here

Murdochcat is one of the many trolls that start an argument for the sake of it and fertilise the thread with numerous posts that draw folk in to see what the fuss is about; adding their own ha'porth in the mix. A necessary ingredient in any garden: fertiliser. Helps it grow.

 

[ericmark]

So while your at it, what about 8 bells? Before the introduction of time zones, noon was not struck by the hourglass, but when the captain or officer of the deck confirmed local noon by the sun, using a sextant.

 

[Odds]

So while your at it, what about 8 bells? Before the introduction of time zones, noon was not struck by the hourglass, but when the captain or officer of the deck confirmed local noon by the sun, using a sextant.

In that case, let's revive the custom of rum tots to tell the time through the day - from 'sippers' to a full throated glugger 'ere the sun passes o'er yonder yardarm.

 

[SUNRAY]

So while your at it, what about 8 bells? Before the introduction of time zones, noon was not struck by the hourglass, but when the captain or officer of the deck confirmed local noon by the sun, using a sextant.

As a youngster a naval guy explained it to me, I'll only say:
As I recall it the origin of 8bells was way afor sextants and the bell w' roong e'ry time t' halfhour glass (or double rings for an hour glass) w' turned o'er 'n 8bells 'app'nd 6 times a day and signalled the end of a 4 hour watch.
There was also some complicated sounding way of counting the watches with wooden tokens and 1bells indicated twice in the afternoon to call the 2 watches to dinner in 2 sittings. Also some something about the cooks duty to polish the bell.

Cor blimey that sounds confusing but as a youngster I suspect I didn't understand it and after 60 years I have no idea if it makes sense to anyone.

 

[JohnD]

Noon comes from Latin for nine.

Novem?

OED says it is a word of Germanic origin
(Like all fundamental English words)

noon, n. meanings, etymology and more | Oxford English Dictionary

noon, n. meanings, etymology, pronunciation and more in the Oxford English Dictionary

www.oed.com

 

[securespark]

 

[SUNRAY]

Ms Sunray has just been reading over my shoulder and insists 12pm is midnight and proceded to show me the itinery for a coach tour showing the arrival as 1100-1200pm.

 

[JohnD]

It can't be.

P.m. means before noon, and a.m. means after noon.

Midnight is equidistant.

It is "midnight" or "twelve midnight" or "00:00"

 

[JohnW2]

In essence, yes thinks are no more or no less safe/unsafe as they were at the time we thought of it as normal practice. ...

Indeed.

It is just now that our perception of safety has changed, not usually a bad thing IMHO;

The concept is, in my opinion, 'not a bad thing', but there is often scope for debate as to whether the changes may have gone 'too far'.

However it does sometimes encourage the blame culture excesses methinks' ... "It`s not my fault I climbed up a 20 foot high wall and fell off and broke me leg `cos nobody had put a notice there to tell me not to, so now they owe me compensation.

Quite so, and that leads to 'silly warnings' in an attempt to 'cover backsides' - "this coffee may be hot" etc. etc. One of my family members has a very serious nut allergy, and he often moans about the "may also contain traces of nuts" labelling of products.

There are other potential 'downsides', particularly the fact that increasing degrees of 'protection'can lead to complacency. As I recently wrote, there are certainly some people (even in my family) who have been known to say (presumably 'believe') that they don't need to be so careful when driving "because their car has ABS" - or, similarly, that one does not have to be so careful about 'playing with electrics' if there is RCD protection. Given that neither ABS nor RCDs *nor anything else) give "100% protection", that is not really a very sensible mind set.

'Over protection' can also sometimes be counter-productive. Well-meaning parents who fanatically 'protect' babies and small children from 'dirt, and bugs' and/or foods to which some people are allergic' are at risk of impairing and/or delaying development of immunity to these unavoidable 'hazards', and may even increase the probability of food allergies developing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

There is a certain irony that this thread is one of the most on topic threads here

Indeed - but don't count your chickens! It's not that long ago that I was accused of 'ruining' a thread which I had started myself for the purpose of discussing what was being discussed!

Also ironic is the fact that posts which merely moan about other posts are, in themselves, both 'unhelpful' and 'off-topic'

 

[JohnW2]

Noon comes from Latin for nine. Originally Midday was 15:00, as it was nine hours from the monks' time of rising (6:00).

Yes,I've read that.

That that evolved into a situation in which most people regard "noon" and "midday" as essentially synonymous only really makes sense if the monks 'retired' at midnight (hence only 6 hours sleep), which would make 15:00 "the middle of their day" - since nowhere on earth, at any time of year is "the middle of the day" by most credible definitions (e.g.middle of the hours of daylight,solar noon etc.) anything like as late as 15:00

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Murdochcat is one of the many trolls that start an argument for the sake of it and fertilise the thread with numerous posts that draw folk in to see what the fuss is about; adding their own ha'porth in the mix. A necessary ingredient in any garden: fertiliser. Helps it grow.

Most forums have at least one of them - and, as I've just written, one irony about their incessant moans about 'off-topic posts' is that those moaning posts are, in themselves, 'off topic'

In one of the forums I help manage, when we are deciding what to do about such a person, we will often estimate their 'useful posts ratio' - and it is, in some cases, amazing how high is the proportion of posts which are merely moaning about other posts or individuals, rather than being a useful contribution to discussions occurring in the thread!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Novem? OED says it is a word of Germanic origin (Like all fundamental English words)

As secure has illustrated, the OED seems to be somewhat out on a limb on that one, most dictionaries and other sources talking about the Latin ('ninth hour') derivation.

I forgot on say in my recent response to secure,I think this derivation related to "the ninth hour" after the monks had risen, rather than to exactly 9 hours after they had arisen. If that is the case, then that 'noon' was fairly vague (being an hour in duration), a bit like the way in which wee often use the prefix "mid" ... when we talk of "mid-Atlantic", "mid-Summer", "mid-blue' etc. etc., we are not usually talking about a precisely exact 'mid-point' but, rather, something 'around the middle'.

Kind Regards, John