Vive La France!

[JohnD]

contrary to Christian values whereby the life of a child is sacrosanct.

Says who? Why do you think it is specific to one religion? How have you decided that a fertilised egg is a child?

At what age does human life stop being sacrosant?

 

[space junkie]

Hi, thank you for your post.

The source link is here:

Unsafe Abortion: Unnecessary Maternal Mortality - PMC

Every year, worldwide, about 42 million women with unintended pregnancies choose abortion, and nearly half of these procedures, 20 million, are unsafe. Some 68,000 women die of unsafe abortion annually, making it one of the leading causes of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“Every year, worldwide, about 42 million women with unintended pregnancies choose abortion, and nearly half of these procedures, 20 million, are unsafe. Some 68,000 women die of unsafe abortion annually, making it one of the leading causes of maternal mortality (13%). Of the women who survive unsafe abortion, 5 million will suffer long-term health complications. Unsafe abortion is thus a pressing issue. Both of the primary methods for preventing unsafe abortion—less restrictive abortion laws and greater contraceptive use—face social, religious, and political obstacles, particularly in developing nations, where most unsafe abortions (97%) occur.”


I agree you could argue countries with illegal abortion may have worse healthcare, but your argument doesn’t make the data worthless.

Thanks for that, that's excellent.
While I fully agree with the sentiment of the comments in that paragraph, and in the whole article, their use of comparison of abortion related deaths to childbirth is, IMO, useless.
For instance, it could easily be argued that in those countries where more restrictive abortion laws apply, socio-economic, religious attitudes, education levels, availability of contraception, etc, are far less, lower, devout, etc (insert whichever word applies).
Other factors may be higher, e.g infant mortality rate, pregnancies, (including unwanted pregancies).
The higher pregnancy rate will invriably lead to a higher rate of unwaqnted pregancies, etc.
Then there are the enviromental factors, such as climate, which can affect pregnancy.
Therefore my criticism, IMO, of the comparison of abortion related deaths to childbirth is too simplistic and even misleading.

Further reading of that same article goes on to explain the issues relating to some of the aspects that I mentioned.

 

[space junkie]

They are also free to terminate and try for another baby later on.

Of course. I agree. Just as they are free to choose to allow the pregnancy to go full term. It's their choice and rightly so.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Himmy just entered the room.

 

[noseall]

Again, no. You're twisting things out of context.

I am? What do you mean 'again'?

Please explain?

 

[noseall]

Hmm, I am sure one can hold an ideological objection to abortion without hating women.
One is a concientious objection, the orher is just misogyny. They aren't necessarily connected, although they are not mutually exclusive.

So restricting access to abortion has been great for women the world over, has it?

No.

Restricting access to abortion is dire and has dire consequences for women. Often fatal consequences. How can you honestly say you have a fondness for women , then take away something so important to their health.

Likewise, objecting to abortion does not mean standing by and watching women die.
Again there is a distinct difference.

Objecting? Do you think these religious fruit loops are just happy with 'objecting' ? Have a look at those RWR idiots in the USA, if you think that.

Thankfully, there are enough sensible US states left for women to still access abortion, albeit with a bit of difficulty. The RWR morons are even trying to get their grubby hands on Mifepristone and are doing their best to control women there too.

Lousy bastards.

 

[noseall]

Just as they are free to choose to allow the pregnancy to go full term

Except this is a thread about abortion and the idiot RWR, women controlling, fruit loops, who make it their sole mission to to remove access to abortion.

Lousy bastards.

 

[JonathanM]

How can you honestly say you have a fondness for women , then take away something so important to their health.

What about other women who are against abortion? It's just something that has popped into my head.

 

[noseall]

What about other women who are against abortion? It's just something that has popped into my head.

Which of these three do you mean...?

The downtrodden ones that would not dare defy their controller?

Or the religious brainwashed fruit loop type that say things like 'guns were sent from Jesus'?

Or the political ones that are desperate for votes?

 

[JonathanM]

Which of these three do you mean...?

The downtrodden ones that would not dare defy their controller?

Or the religious brainwashed fruit loop type that say things like 'guns were sent from Jesus'?

Or the political ones that are desperate for votes?

I know you have strong views on this.

But it takes all sorts.

I can imagine there are at least some intelligent women with religious beliefs, Christian or otherwise, who believe that abortion is a sin, but who aren't "brainwashed fruit loops".

And then on Googling for information on reasons why women might support abortion, I came across something I had never heard of before. Anti-abortion feminism.

Anti-abortion feminism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Notch7]

What about other women who are against abortion? It's just something that has popped into my head.

Trump supporters and religious nutters

 

[Notch7]

I can imagine there are at least some intelligent women with religious beliefs, Christian or otherwise, who believe that abortion is a sin, but who aren't "brainwashed fruit loops".

Intelligent people can be brainwashed.

 

[space junkie]

So restricting access to abortion has been great for women the world over, has it?

No.

Restricting access to abortion is dire and has dire consequences for women. Often fatal consequences. How can you honestly say you have a fondness for women , then take away something so important to their health.

Whoa, back off.
I fully support your argument about abortion. In fact I think I am more liberal about it than you are. I admire your commitment and intensity.

Objecting? Do you think these religious fruit loops are just happy with 'objecting' ? Have a look at those RWR idiots in the USA, if you think that.

Thankfully, there are enough sensible US states left for women to still access abortion, albeit with a bit of difficulty. The RWR morons are even trying to get their grubby hands on Mifepristone and are doing their best to control women there too.

Lousy bastards.

I tried to take the personality, and the people out of the discussion.
I said that a conscientious objection is not the same, nor is it automatically associated with misogyny.
Indeed the reverse can be true: a support for abortion can be accompanied by misogyny.
On this occasion, I agree that a dedicated conscientious objector, such as those you mentioned, coupled with a desire to implement one's belief on others is, misogyny.
But not every conscientious objector to abortion want to enforce their belief on others.
To automatically associate the two issues is unfair, unless there is grounds to justify your accusations.

 

[JonathanM]

Now I've done some Googling, I've found an interesting article in the Guardian, which looks at why more women than men oppose abortion. It concludes there are many overlapping and complex reasons. I've never really thought about any of this stuff before. It's complicated!!

Why are women more opposed to abortion? | Martin Robbins

Martin Robbins: Polls in recent years show that men support more liberal abortion laws than women – even among Catholics. Are they accurate, and if so what could explain the counterintuitive gender divide?

www.theguardian.com

 

[space junkie]

Except this is a thread about abortion and the idiot RWR, women controlling, fruit loops, who make it their sole mission to to remove access to abortion.

Lousy bastards.

My comment was in response to Odds comment, which might have been interpreted as an abortion for some reasons are comme d'habitude.

Quite the opposite. Aborting a foetus disgnosed with Down Syndrome on account of his/her condition is contrary to Christian values whereby the life of a child is sacrosanct. They can have fulfillng lives given care and support in a loving family.

I merely pointed out that was not the case. Parents (the woman) can choose to either abort the foetus, or allow the pregnenacy to go full term.
It really is their choice.