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What claims did I make on this forum that you want to take up with me?
Vive La France!
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Yes it's an interesting 10 year old article. The UK based polls are quite consistent. There is no majority, in the UK, of either sex, for more restrictive laws on abortion. So why did the author of the article introduce a North America/Canada poll?
The Angus Reid Institute:
"Angus Reid Group (formerly Angus Reid Global) is a market research company serving the research intelligence needs of businesses and organizations across North America.
Launched in June 2019, the company is Reid's latest business venture"
Angus Reid (entrepreneur) - Wikipedia
And what was the motivation for you introducing a 10 year old article into the discussion?
Was it just a genuine interest in the opinions between the sexes?
If one disagrees with a policy, perhaps the next best thing is to make it more restrictive. That can possibly be achieved by swinging popular opinion, by introducing misleading data.
The current regime is purely elective. There is currently no obligation to choose to have an abortion, nor is there any denial of the opportunity for those that elect for the procedure, within the current framework.
Picking around the edges can be misleading if irrelevant data is used.
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Except where the criteria in the Abortion Act are not met.
It was the only article I could find. It reviewed a decade of polling. Opinion doesn't seem to have changed since. That new poll from YouGov, posted above, shows that women still favour more restrictive rules on abortion, by the same 20 point margin, over men.
Yes. There have been previous comments in this thread that only men want to restrict abortion. I thought that article was a useful contribution to the discussion.
He didn't. It was a UK poll. Angus Reid have been polling in the UK for many years.
I don't disagree with the current policy. In fact, if you read back, I have discuseed the merits of moving to the Northern Ireland system, which is slighlty less restrictive.
Paranoia?
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I think you know.
Says who? Why do you think it is specific to one religion? How have you decided that a fertilised egg is a child?
At what age does human life stop being sacrosant?
You could download the actual act and read it. You can read various interpretations of it. Best option really is to read the NHS pages on it which fills in the actual details when some decides they want an abortion.
You could also read the Wiki on UK abortion. There is a 1967 act section. Not long but gives the very basic rules. You may get confuses as it applies to all of the UK. Case law figures. There are also various graphs concerning abortions. Some info on groups for and against etc.
The make it easier lot. Fact is if some one wants one it is very easy. Sell the pills at Savers or Boots etc. It mentions a case where some one got the pills when the actual foetus age was way over what it should have been. Bound to mean that they will finish up in hospital. As this has happened do they check more thoroughly now? Pass I don't know but given that this has happened they may well do this. It still wouldn't make having an abortion that much more difficult. One visit for a scan, go away with the pills.
Compare time limits with premature births - well you best go check what that means in terms of the baby that is produced. Babies lungs are more or less the last thing to function correctly. They need to be.
Seems there has been votes on reducing the abortion foetus age limit but so far they have been defeated but not so strongly when it comes down to 20. The time limit does apply to premature births.
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I did, ages ago, it explains how an abortion is approved, or not.
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That's the morning after pill, not really what we are discussing here. Abortion pills are only available after a consultation.
How’s life treating you Himmie?Yes it's an interesting 10 year old article. The UK based polls are quite consistent. There is no majority, in the UK, of either sex, for more restrictive laws on abortion. So why did the author of the article introduce a North America/Canada poll?
The Angus Reid Institute:
"Angus Reid Group (formerly Angus Reid Global) is a market research company serving the research intelligence needs of businesses and organizations across North America.
Launched in June 2019, the company is Reid's latest business venture"
Angus Reid (entrepreneur) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
And what was the motivation for you introducing a 10 year old article into the discussion?
Was it just a genuine interest in the opinions between the sexes?
If one disagrees with a policy, perhaps the next best thing is to make it more restrictive. That can possibly be achieved by swinging popular opinion, by introducing misleading data.
The current regime is purely elective. There is currently no obligation to choose to have an abortion, nor is there any denial of the opportunity for those that elect for the procedure, within the current framework.
Picking around the edges can be misleading if irrelevant data is used.
Welcome back by the way
Nice speech, but irrelevant.
What gripes most GP's doctors, midwives and those seeking abortion in the UK, is the two doctors sign-off/approval thing. I pointed this fact out to MBK on page 30. He spent hundreds of pages either saying it was a lie, or not needed or just waffling about UK law.
Here is what one prominent doctor said, who incidentally, is all for abolishing the two doctor approval process (for early abortions)...
2.1 Currently, the requirement for two doctors to certify that a woman meets the legal grounds for abortion has the potential to delay treatment. It may be difficult for a woman who is concerned about confidentiality to find two doctors to approve her abortion request. There is no central monitoring of delays to treatment of this type, but recently, Tony Calland, the Medical Ethics Committee Chair of the British Medical Association (BMA) said that "some women waited up to 13 weeks [gestation] to have their abortion approved by two doctors and removing this requirement would reduce such a wait and the associated risks".
MBK still thinks it's not approval/authorisation, bless him, lol.
"Here is what one prominent doctor said, who incidentally, is all for abolishing the two doctor approval process (for early abortions)..."
What did the other doctor say about that?
I demand a second opinion!
What did the other doctor say about that?
I demand a second opinion!
There are lots of doctors, professors and solicitors to choose from. They helped compile The 12th Report, that MBK has also attempted to rubbish.
I tapped into the 'Written Evidence' pages and read through those. There are many instances where doctors, nurses and midwives refer to the two doctor approval process, Dr Vincent Argent and Dr Tony Calland amongst them. Believe a driving instructor/dingy boat captain if you wish, it does not change the written fact one iota...
2.1 Currently, the requirement for two doctors to certify that a woman meets the legal grounds for abortion has the potential to delay treatment. It may be difficult for a woman who is concerned about confidentiality to find two doctors to approve her abortion request. There is no central monitoring of delays to treatment of this type, but recently, Tony Calland, the Medical Ethics Committee Chair of the British Medical Association (BMA) said that "some women waited up to 13 weeks [gestation] to have their abortion approved by two doctors and removing this requirement would reduce such a wait and the associated risks". The requirement for two signatures for solely legal purposes also increases treatment costs by introducing unnecessary bureaucracy.
4.3 Recent public opinion polls suggest that the public would like to see improved and easier access for early abortion but that the upper limit should be reduced or that later abortions should be subject to greater counselling and stricter approval criteria. The BMA, the RCOG the Nuffield Council on Bioethics have addressed the problems surrounding later abortion.
4.5 In practice, it would seem reasonable to reduce the 24 week upper limit for section 1(1)a C and D abortions to 16 weeks. Abortions could still be approved over 16 weeks under section 1(1)a Ground B where the termination is necessary top prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the women. Agreement to such abortions would follow improved in-depth counselling and a concerted effort to confirm that there is a risk of grave injury. (No limits would be placed on abortions sanctioned under Grounds A and E).
84. The Abortion Act 1967 requires that an abortion under ground A to E is certified by two doctors, who must each sign a Department of Health HSA 1 form to give notification that the abortion has been approved and on what grounds, and an HSA 4 form for information including patient details, the method of abortion and gestation time.
All taken from the 12th report and compiled with help from some of the most distinguished individuals working around UK abortion today. You can find the list if you look toward the report contents.
Just to remind you of the paragraph you highlighted in case you forgot..
Vincent Argent, you say...wasn't he a hitman in Pulp Fiction?
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