Vive La France!

[noseall]

The one which would be born if the pregnancy continued.

There is no child to consider at this point.

 

[JonathanM]

What technical point are you referring to?

That the thing that makes an abortion legal is two doctors coming to the conclusion that one of the grounds is made out. It is still a legal abortion, even if they don't sign the forms.

 

[noseall]

. It is still a legal abortion, even if they don't sign the forms.

Nonsense. The HSA1 form is part of the process. Have you not read any of this...

It clearly states that two signatures are required. If they are incorrectly filled in then they are sent back to be corrected.

 

[denso13]

That the thing that makes an abortion legal is two doctors coming to the conclusion that one of the grounds is made out. It is still a legal abortion, even if they don't sign the forms.

And if one of the grounds isn't met? This really isn't a trap, but no one will answer it.

 

[noseall]

That the thing that makes an abortion legal is two doctors coming to the conclusion that one of the grounds is made out.

And they convey their conclusions by telepathy or what? Are they able to put a date on those thoughts?

 

[denso13]

It is still a legal abortion, even if they don't sign the forms.

"Form HSA1 must be completed, signed and dated by two registered medical practitioners before an abortion is performed under Section 1 (1) of the Abortion Act1967"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a755bd240f0b6360e4737e3/2013_C_Guidance_note_for_completing_the_HSA1_and_HSA2_abortion_forms.pdf

 

[Justin Passing]

There is no child to consider at this point.

Common sense says that there should be, as were other children in the previous version.
I said that I found it odd that the prospects of the child were not considered. There IS a child involved.

And if one of the grounds aren't met?

The grounds the docs judge on are medical.
If two don't sign then the abortion isn't legal.
Forms have to be in place.
Simple enough?

Are you really arguing over the legal status between the time of ink drying and the form arriving somewhere?

 

[JonathanM]

Nonsense. The HSA1 form is part of the process. Have you not read any of this...

It clearly states that two signatures are required. If they are incorrectly filled in then they are sent back to be corrected.

Indeed. But that doesn't make the abortion illegal. The offence of illegal abortion is under the Offences Against the Person Act. As long as two doctors conclude it meets the requirements, then it is a legal abortion. If they wilfully don't complete the forms there may be a different type of penalty. But that doesn't make the abortion illegal.

 

[noseall]

That the thing that makes an abortion legal is two doctors coming to the conclusion that one of the grounds is made out. It is still a legal abortion, even if they don't sign the forms.

91
I think we have to understand this in its historical context. Abortion is quite unique because under the Offences Against the Person Act abortion is still illegal in this country, which means that if you commit an illegal abortion you can go to prison for 14 years. The reason there are two doctors in the Act has nothing to do with medicine or safety but everything to do with legality.[115]

 

[JonathanM]

"Form HSA1 must be completed, signed and dated by two registered medical practitioners before an abortion is performed under Section 1 (1) of the Abortion Act1967"

But what is the penalty if it isn't?

 

[noseall]

Indeed. But that doesn't make the abortion illegal.

Irrelevant. The onus and penalty is with the doctor, not the patient

For the abortion to go ahead, it still requires their approval.

 

[denso13]

The only ground the doc can judge on is the timing issue,is it not?

I don't think so, but even if it is then,

If oin his opinion the foetus is too old he doesn't sign. SImple enough?

seems simple to me. The abortion isn't approved.

 

[noseall]

But what is the penalty if it isn't?

Struck off. 14 years in nick.

No approval - No abortion.

 

[denso13]

But what is the penalty if it isn't?

I don't really care, that's an MBK deflection. Is the opinion of doctor's de facto approval or not?

 

[Justin Passing]

That the thing that makes an abortion legal is two doctors coming to the conclusion that one of the grounds is made out. It is still a legal abortion, even if they don't sign the forms.

T'other way round. Its's not legal unless all grounds... and 2 signatures prove it.