Well that worked out well!

I've always seen Israel as a tiny state besieged on all sides by angry arabs who now think the world owes them the entire planet for some reason.
I think the land masses is few percent for the Israelis and the rest arab.

Another view is that the Jews emigrated to Palestine, which was under British control for several decades, against the wishes of the predominantly Arab population, and then declared an independent state, against the wishes of the Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere.

The Jewish presence in Palestine (now Israel) stretches back much further than that. Received wisdom is that the Jews originated in the time of Abraham - as early as 2000BC - in Mesopotamia (Iraq), and then migrated to Canaan (Israel) in Old Testament times. There is also, of course, the biblical story of the Jews being led from slavery in Egypt, across the Red Sea, to Canaan.

So Canaan/Palestine/Israel has been their homeland for millenia, long before the 'religion of peace' was even a twinkle in some b*gger's eye. Israel is, therefore, a very logical place in which to establish their modern-day homeland - assuming that they, like every other race on this planet, deserves one!

Naturally, all of the surrounding arab states would like to over-run Israel and make it another arab state, but then isn't the proclaimed intention of muslims to take over the entire world?

In ~1900 the Jewish presence in the area was tiny, the vast majority of the inhabitants being Arabs. When Britain was handed the Mandate of Palestine in ~1918 we allowed in Jews en masse, against the professed wishes of the majority Arab population. We tried to reduce immigration later. But post 1945 there were huge numbers entering, for obvious reasons.

I was not under the impression that if your ancestors lived in an area hundreds or thousands of years ago, that gave you a right to the land. Maybe the 'celts' should expel the English back to Northern Europe? They could do that following your reasoning. My parents used to live in a nice house in Leicester. Does that give me a right to that house?

The truth is that Jews suffered persecution for thousands of years, the Holocaust being the most extreme example. And post 1945 European countries saw 'Israel' as a way to rid itself of the Jewish problem. Even after the end of WW2, there were pogroms in Eastern Europe. Poles and others often helped the Nazis and profited from the expulsions/murders of Jews. And lots of countries felt sorry for the Jews. So non Arab countries voted for the establishment of Israel, against the wishes of the Arabs. It is hardly surprising the Arabs feel an injustice was committed, because one was. Both the Jews and the Arabs have suffered.

The problem is how to square the circle. Many Arabs were expelled from Israel. Many Jews were expelled from Europe, and Arab countries. Many Jews know Israel as their birth place, it is their home.

It is a bloody mess.
 
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The establishment wont bring Blair to justice

And who votes for that establishment.

Whichever way you spin it, Blair is part of the system, he was no a dictator, if he is guilty, then so are a whole lot of other people, A LOT of people.

He was very good at manipulating people and playing the system. Controlling the media was one of his strengths, drip feed them stories if they are good, don't if they are naughty i.e. criticise the government. Campbell knew how to control journalists, not all of course, but enough to influence public opnion in his favour. Many Tories voted for the war, and now say had they had a true picture, they would not have done so. Con man Blair rides again, yee haa.
 
Jeez, how many times does it have to be repeated. It wouldnt have mattered if it was Blair or some other cretin in the job, the invasion was always gonna happen. Wise up

Blair acted as a fig leaf for Bush, and helped create a coalition. Bush would have gone in, but at least we would not have sanctioned it, and wasted British lives. It damaged our reputation in the Middle East.
 
Ruined our reputation, forming the state of Israel post ww2 did that. As stated b4 wouldn't have mattered who was in charge no PM is gonna shun the US. Some strange minds about , remember who saved our bacon in ww1 and 2
 
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I've always seen Israel as a tiny state besieged on all sides by angry arabs who now think the world owes them the entire planet for some reason.
I think the land masses is few percent for the Israelis and the rest arab.

Another view is that the Jews emigrated to Palestine, which was under British control for several decades, against the wishes of the predominantly Arab population, and then declared an independent state, against the wishes of the Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere.

The Jewish presence in Palestine (now Israel) stretches back much further than that. Received wisdom is that the Jews originated in the time of Abraham - as early as 2000BC - in Mesopotamia (Iraq), and then migrated to Canaan (Israel) in Old Testament times. There is also, of course, the biblical story of the Jews being led from slavery in Egypt, across the Red Sea, to Canaan.

So Canaan/Palestine/Israel has been their homeland for millenia, long before the 'religion of peace' was even a twinkle in some b*gger's eye. Israel is, therefore, a very logical place in which to establish their modern-day homeland - assuming that they, like every other race on this planet, deserves one!

Naturally, all of the surrounding arab states would like to over-run Israel and make it another arab state, but then isn't the proclaimed intention of muslims to take over the entire world?

In ~1900 the Jewish presence in the area was tiny, the vast majority of the inhabitants being Arabs. When Britain was handed the Mandate of Palestine in ~1918 we allowed in Jews en masse, against the professed wishes of the majority Arab population. We tried to reduce immigration later. But post 1945 there were huge numbers entering, for obvious reasons.

I was not under the impression that if your ancestors lived in an area hundreds or thousands of years ago, that gave you a right to the land. Maybe the 'celts' should expel the English back to Northern Europe? They could do that following your reasoning. My parents used to live in a nice house in Leicester. Does that give me a right to that house?

The truth is that Jews suffered persecution for thousands of years, the Holocaust being the most extreme example. And post 1945 European countries saw 'Israel' as a way to rid itself of the Jewish problem. Even after the end of WW2, there were pogroms in Eastern Europe. Poles and others often helped the Nazis and profited from the expulsions/murders of Jews. And lots of countries felt sorry for the Jews. So non Arab countries voted for the establishment of Israel, against the wishes of the Arabs. It is hardly surprising the Arabs feel an injustice was committed, because one was. Both the Jews and the Arabs have suffered.

The problem is how to square the circle. Many Arabs were expelled from Israel. Many Jews were expelled from Europe, and Arab countries. Many Jews know Israel as their birth place, it is their home.

It is a bloody mess.

A valid argument.

However, assuming that the Jews are entitled to a homeland (everyone else appears to be), where would you have put them?
 
Hampshire would be a good spot. Its about 4 times smaller but I think you'd squeeze them in since there's no desert. :LOL:
 
Hampshire would be a good spot. Its about 4 times smaller but I think you'd squeeze them in since there's no desert. :LOL:

I suppose that Birmingham, Bradford and Leicester wouldn't be very suitable.
 
I've always seen Israel as a tiny state besieged on all sides by angry arabs who now think the world owes them the entire planet for some reason.
I think the land masses is few percent for the Israelis and the rest arab.

Another view is that the Jews emigrated to Palestine, which was under British control for several decades, against the wishes of the predominantly Arab population, and then declared an independent state, against the wishes of the Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere.

The Jewish presence in Palestine (now Israel) stretches back much further than that. Received wisdom is that the Jews originated in the time of Abraham - as early as 2000BC - in Mesopotamia (Iraq), and then migrated to Canaan (Israel) in Old Testament times. There is also, of course, the biblical story of the Jews being led from slavery in Egypt, across the Red Sea, to Canaan.

So Canaan/Palestine/Israel has been their homeland for millenia, long before the 'religion of peace' was even a twinkle in some b*gger's eye. Israel is, therefore, a very logical place in which to establish their modern-day homeland - assuming that they, like every other race on this planet, deserves one!

Naturally, all of the surrounding arab states would like to over-run Israel and make it another arab state, but then isn't the proclaimed intention of muslims to take over the entire world?

In ~1900 the Jewish presence in the area was tiny, the vast majority of the inhabitants being Arabs. When Britain was handed the Mandate of Palestine in ~1918 we allowed in Jews en masse, against the professed wishes of the majority Arab population. We tried to reduce immigration later. But post 1945 there were huge numbers entering, for obvious reasons.

I was not under the impression that if your ancestors lived in an area hundreds or thousands of years ago, that gave you a right to the land. Maybe the 'celts' should expel the English back to Northern Europe? They could do that following your reasoning. My parents used to live in a nice house in Leicester. Does that give me a right to that house?

The truth is that Jews suffered persecution for thousands of years, the Holocaust being the most extreme example. And post 1945 European countries saw 'Israel' as a way to rid itself of the Jewish problem. Even after the end of WW2, there were pogroms in Eastern Europe. Poles and others often helped the Nazis and profited from the expulsions/murders of Jews. And lots of countries felt sorry for the Jews. So non Arab countries voted for the establishment of Israel, against the wishes of the Arabs. It is hardly surprising the Arabs feel an injustice was committed, because one was. Both the Jews and the Arabs have suffered.

The problem is how to square the circle. Many Arabs were expelled from Israel. Many Jews were expelled from Europe, and Arab countries. Many Jews know Israel as their birth place, it is their home.

It is a bloody mess.

A valid argument.

However, assuming that the Jews are entitled to a homeland (everyone else appears to be), where would you have put them?

I would not consider that any group has an entitlement to a homeland beyond the country where they now legally live.

However, the Israel problem is complex, and in my view the only realistic solution for many reasons is to assume that Israel has a right to exist, and to reach a solution based on a secure Israel. The next issue is the border and the Palestinian refugees. However, Israel is full of refugees from Arab countries, which is rarely mentioned, which kind of negates the Palestinian refugee rights. I'd re-establish the 1967 borders, and have them share Jerusalem. But it will never happen. Lord knows what will happen. America is part of the problem, of course, and they do not use their influence.
 
Solution is simple. Firstly, as promoted on many topics here pull all UN troops out. Secondly, pull out all no essential personnel. Any party that leaves the UK to any of these parts won't be allowed back, for any reason. The Jews are the self proclaimed chosen children of God. Let the world watch them prove it or not. We have described the warring tribal bandity hierarchy that Arabs and Muslims have , which is no different from the Jews describing themselves as the 'Israelite tribe'. Jews believe modern day Israel is their right plenty others don't.
 
So what happens next?

Missing Israeli teens found dead near Hebron

Quite an interesting quote in that report...

Israeli Economy Minister Naftali Bennett wrote on Facebook: "Murderers of children and those who direct them cannot be forgiven. Now is a time for actions, not words."

So what were the child casualties during Israel's last attack on Gaza in 'Operation Cast Lead'?

According to Israel - 89 kids dead
According to the UN/NGOs - 318 kids dead

So what action was taken against the Israeli child murderers (and their 'directors') ?

Yep you've guessed it - nothing!
 
kill kids ,remove future soldiers. makes perfect sense, to them, after all herod was a naughty boy
 
The Israeli's are lancing the seedlings young.
When young they throw stones, when older its bullets. Not much point in pretending to care if they get mown down in a hail of lead.

And who teaches them to do it?

We left the work site once at great haste because kids started pelting the van with stones and one 7 year old kid threatened one of the workers.
His exact words were and I'll never forget.. "I'm going to hit you".
If the next time it was guns then what's the best solution?

Down in Belfast they have started recreational rioting to relieve the boredom. Hogs breed hogs!
 
So what happens next?
Quelle surprise...

Palestinian teenager's body found in Jerusalem

"This is not our way and I am fully confident that our security forces will bring the perpetrators to justice."

Sadly it is their way and nothing much will actually happen!

I wonder if the Israeli Economy Minister Naftali Bennett will repeat his statement word for word that "Murderers of children and those who direct them cannot be forgiven. Now is a time for actions, not words."?

And will they blow up the houses of anyone they suspect of this crime?
 
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