What is the best Brexit deal we can realistically achieve?

[Doggit]

I can guarantee that it's a subconcious fear of the unknown that's pushing a lot of the remainers.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I can guarantee that it was absolute ignorance that was driving a lot of the quitters.

I know - not you or the people picked to go on Question Time but it definitely was with the majority of the majority.

 

[Doggit]

Well there was ignorance on both sides really. You have to remember that most people don't have the inteligence necessary to sort all the facts out; most just listen to the bits that resonate with their initial core ideas. And oddlly enough I think that still applies to a lot of people in well paid jobs who should act a lot more inteligently that they did.

The red bus with the £350m was a total disgrace, but so was the remainsers for then demanding to know why that isn't now being spent on the NHS - well maybe because we haven't left yet. A lot of the quitters were fed up with the EU's controls, but couldn't see that we always get weak governments that should just get rid of the ones we don't want (laws, immigrants, and undesirables), and then let them take us to court from another country. And a lot of those who voted to leave, didn't have any idea of how Brexit would be negotiated, and I doubt if they'd though that far foward.

At the end of it, whilst a lot of Brexiteers voted as a way of sticking it to Cameron (who'd showed complete contempt to the electorate), I actully think that most were just fed up with being bossed about by the EU.

But I think the ignorance factor applies to a lot of the remainers as well. My daughter was as angy as hell in the morning, because she was convinced that all her hope of travel, and learning abroad were now dashed completely; she had no idea that all she'd need to do would be apply for a visa if she wanted to go anywhere, just as she's had to do for her American holiday this year.

People: God give me strength.

 

[EFLImpudence]

People: God give me strength.

Told you democracy is a silly idea.

 

[Roger928]

So Doggitt, when you are shown evidence you don't like, you dismiss it with no opposing arguments.

I say that water is wet, and demonstrate it experimentally.

You say the experiments are carried out by people with a wettist bias who believe water to be wet and its not fair, because all the people who study water say its wet.

OK then, show me evidence that water is dry

Any links you post are left wing propaganda harvested from google and your beloved left wing leaning bbc.

 

[Roger928]

But I think the ignorance factor applies to a lot of the remainers as well

We've had 40 odd years of pure ignorance from the remainers. And you only need to have a look at the state its left the country in.
Now its time for something different.

 

[JohnD]

Any links you post are left wing propaganda harvested from google and your beloved left wing leaning bbc.

Nice to see roger has given up because he has nothing sensible to say, so is just puffing out noxious clouds of nonsense.

 

[securespark]

My bum does that in the morning...

 

[noseall]

My bum does that in the morning...

Exactly the same thing as Rogers posts.

 

[motorbiking]

I thought it was fine how it is now, all be it a bit expensive for a non Euro zone country to be paying in so much. But the EU is heading for a centralised United states of europe where you have to be fully in (euro) or you end up sidelined. As the second largest net contributor, that model sat out like a sore thumb.

The other problem is we brits, tend to follow the rules, where as other EU countries ignore the ones they don't like. e.g. the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland are currently ignoring a requirement to take in EU landed refugees, despite being massive net receivers of EU investment and probably the countries with the biggest economic migration of its own citizens.

 

[JohnD]

The other problem is we brits, tend to follow the rules, where as other EU countries ignore the ones they don't like.

yes, it's common for people to think they're the only good people in the world. I bet you think the UK has never been taken to court for contravening the rules.

Nonsense, obviously.

Did you win the Lottery of Life?

 

[Nozzle]

Carbon trading scheme being one example. A mechanism put in place to force member states to clean up, and the mechanism was abused.

Furthermore, co-firing coal power stations with bio-mass is listed by the EU as carbon neutral. Chopping down trees from US of A, shipping them across the atlantic and burning them here is far from envronmentally friendly. Plus, it inflates UK figures of "generation by renewable electricity". The category should exclude combustion.

Nozzle

 

[wobs]

Now lets see, which side did the BOE campaign for in Brexit when they should have shown neutrality, oh yes, the remain camp.

Why do you think they did that?

They, and the government, were eventually forced to admit that immigration did hold down wages for the low paid.

Actually no. From previous link:
"Sir Stephen Nickell speaks out on how his work has been misrepresented by leading Brexiteers who want to slash immigration"

Common sense should tell you that if there are more people chasing job, than there are jobs available, then wages will get kept down to the minimum wage level, and whilst there are in work benefits to support those low wages, there are no incentives for the workers to do anything about it.

Again, flawed thinking. With immigration of productive people (eg. EU people), you also get incease in demand.

If Brexit does deter immigrants from coming here, then you will see a rise in wages to then attract workers, or businesses will go under because they can't get the workers.

And inflation is kicking in, so how do you think that will affect things? Also, with an economy that is doing less well, there will be less demand for those jobs.

 

[motorbiking]

yes, it's common for people to think they're the only good people in the world. I bet you think the UK has never been taken to court for contravening the rules.

Nonsense, obviously.

Did you win the Lottery of Life?

We are clearly the bad boys of Europe:

Infringement Decisions (EU Law Application last 10 years):
United Kingdom 164 4.96%
Austria 113 3.42%
Italy 388 11.74%
Poland 124 3.75%
France 225 6.81%
Germany 176 5.33%
Spain 223 6.75%
Malta 56 1.69%
Luxembourg 123 3.72%
Portugal 186 5.63%
Netherlands 150 4.54%

TOTAL 3304

1. http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/applying...-proceedings/infringement_decisions/index.cfm

 

[JohnD]

We are clearly the bad boys of Europe:

we brits, tend to follow the rules, where as other EU countries ignore the ones they don't like.

Wrong on both counts.

More or less middling, if we go by the numbers you show.

Bit of a non-argument, then

It's funny how people get these ideas about their own country being different to all the others.