What is the best Brexit deal we can realistically achieve?

[motorbiking]

You need to adjust it for size of the nation:
Greece for example is 204 cases 6.2% a country of 11M. Belgium 305 cases 9% a country of 11.5M

UK violations are on par with Germany given its size.

Look at Italy, France, Spain. We certainly aren't middling, we are probably in the bottom 2 per capita, per net contribution, per GDP etc.. or however you want to measure it.

Its certainly not statistically valid to compare say Malta (500k population) with the UK

 

[JohnD]

You need to adjust it for size of the nation:

I'm not sure that governments behave worse when they have more citizens.

These cases are alleged failures by governments to abide by their rules, not crimes committed by citizens.

 

[motorbiking]

Its about economic advantage.

 

[JohnD]

Your list isn't.

 

[motorbiking]

The cases are
- did you look at the cases?

 

[JohnD]

yes

When the UK government fails to uphold air pollution standards, for example, what is the economic advantage?

Why do you think a nation with a lot of citizens would fail to comply with more standards than a country with fewer citizens?

I don't understand the point you wish to make.

 

[Nozzle]

Which organisations are these violations commited by - governments, government departments, NGO's, private organisations, companies? Or indeed, individuals?



Nozzle

 

[JohnD]

Nations. The government of that nation is expected to uphold and follow the rules it has committed to.

here's a link to one of the summaries

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-15-5162_EN.htm

 

[motorbiking]

You are aware that almost half of EU countries are in breach (air quality directive)? and they represent the most developed, highest populated countries.
Germany, France, Spain, Italy and Britain are on final warnings and Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland and Portugal are also on notice.

 

[JohnD]

yes, there are always some nations in breach of something.

But I don't see how the size of the population is relevant.

Or have you moved on?

 

[motorbiking]

You chose air quality, I'm suggesting its a bad example given the volume of breaches and the demographic of breaches.
I've shown you the data that illustrates Britain is in the bottom %ile of EU law violators per capita. You seem to be challenging per capita as a valid statistical normaliser. There is a limit to how much we can discuss economic and statistical theory, without agreeing to adopt generally accepted methods.

I will concede that the violation count is crude, because it doesn't take account of the benefit gained per capita. But it probably balances out across the cases, on the basis that EU law follows the same primary rule as civil law. That being nobody sues, unless there is money to be made.

I doubt anyone is surprised that Greece and Italy feature so highly and Germany and Britain are at the bottom. I think I've provided sufficient data to back up my claim that culturally, like the Germans we tend to follow the rules, while others don't.

 

[JohnD]

Your figures show the UK to be around the middle of your list. The violations are per nation, not per head.

I don't know why you object to that.

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that increased population size causes a government to increase its number of violations.

 

[motorbiking]

Its about the size of the prize.

 

[JohnD]

you guess.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

It was interesting to see the press interviews yesterday, after the initial discussions.
Michael Barnier looked fresh, confident, presentable and talked of progress and process.
David Davis looked hot, disheveled almost, and reverted to the usual phraseology.