What is the best Brexit deal we can realistically achieve?

[SirGalahad]

Those of us who could read, voted on the fact that there may not be a deal.. why do you want another vote, it's not our fault that you couldn't read or understand what was being said... Perhaps it is the fault of the education system where kids have been taught that there are no losers.. The truth has come as a nasty shock to the younger generation.. your teachers and lecturers lied to you.

I think if there is fault in the education system you suffer from it. Leave to the side why people voted to leave or remain.

But we can vote on a deal as negotiated - we can reject the deal via a vote does not mean we reject the idea of Brexit it simply means we think the government can do better. So try harder and back to the DM.

 

[SirGalahad]

Those who think no Deal is nirvana will be in for a nasty surprise when we default to WTO rules.

"The UK trades with lots of countries under WTO rules. But the terms are far less favourable than trading within the single market, which is almost frictionless. The sudden imposition of WTO rules is likely to mean tariffs and customs checks, leading to increased financial and bureaucratic costs for British firms buying and selling goods from abroad."

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

I think if there is fault in the education system you suffer from it. Leave to the side why people voted to leave or remain.

But we can vote on a deal as negotiated - we can reject the deal via a vote does not mean we reject the idea of Brexit it simply means we think the government can do better. So try harder and back to the DM.

We have already voted on leaving the EU with the prospect of no negotiated arrangement so a deal that is in the favour of the UK is the cherry on the top. Since it has long been established that we import more from the EU than we export to it any tariffs would be in the favour of the UK.... We have been through all of this long ago. Interesting to note that thanks to Gina miller, our leaving has been enshrined in law and is irreversible.. nice one Gina

 

[JohnD]

We have already voted on leaving the EU with the prospect of no negotiated arrangement

No, that wasn't on the voting slip.

"The UK should leave the EU with no negotiated agreement on citizens or trade X "

that might be what you think you voted for.

 

[JohnD]

We have already voted on leaving the EU with the prospect of no negotiated arrangement

Not much support for that idea...

"
YouGov / Times Poll:

It is more important for Britain to have control over EU
immigration into Britain than to keep free trade: 42%.

It is more important to ensure Britain can trade freely with
the EU without tariff barriers than it is to control EU
immigration: 58%."

The poll also found that more voters now believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU.

Survation also found more voters now favour holding a second referendum on Brexit at the end of the two year negotiation period.

• 
  http://uk.businessinsider.com/yougov-british-people-have-turned-against-a-hard-brexit-2017-6

 

[SirGalahad]

We have already voted on leaving the EU with the prospect of no negotiated arrangement so a deal that is in the favour of the UK is the cherry on the top. Since it has long been established that we import more from the EU than we export to it any tariffs would be in the favour of the UK.... We have been through all of this long ago. Interesting to note that thanks to Gina miller, our leaving has been enshrined in law and is irreversible.. nice one Gina

The referendum vote was boiled down to keep immigrants out vote leave. The intricacies of deals, tariffs etc was never discussed.

What you have not considered is how much of our exports rely on imports, if we add value to raw materials or an intermediate good, exports and imports are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Doggit]

Now what gave you the idea that the vote boiled down to just immigration; it also boiled down to regaining control of our laws, removing the jurisdiction of the European courts, and all the other aspects of the EU telling us what to do, which comes down to a circular argument of not allowing the EU to dictate to us about immigration.

And we didn't bother with the intriciacies of a deal, because we trusted were prepared to accept whatever outcome could be achieved. It is the ramainers that keep insiting on knowing, and then voting on the deal, no one else.

 

[SirGalahad]

Now what gave you the idea that the vote boiled down to just immigration; it also boiled down to regaining control of our laws, removing the jurisdiction of the European courts, and all the other aspects of the EU telling us what to do, which comes down to a circular argument of not allowing the EU to dictate to us about immigration.

And we didn't bother with the intriciacies of a deal, because we trusted were prepared to accept whatever outcome could be achieved. It is the ramainers that keep insiting on knowing, and then voting on the deal, no one else.

We always have had sovereignty and could have controlled our borders better - all within the legal rules of being part of the EU.

So you accepted a decision without knowing with any clarity what the outcome would be -not great planning is that.

If it was democratic to have a referendum why are you so afraid of having a referendum on the deal?

 

[JohnD]

it also boiled down to regaining control of our laws, removing the jurisdiction of the European courts

You mean these laws which we had agreed to, and which Theresa's government intend to spend the next two year (two weeks more likely they will last) copying and pasting into UK laws?

And the European Court which they will agree has authority over laws and treaties agreed with the EU, even after we leave?

not allowing the EU to dictate to us about immigration.

You mean the freedom to regulate EU people travelling for work, which the UK didn't bother doing?

And which are totally irrelevant to immigration from India and China, which are the two countries at the top of the immigrants table, and which are not in the EU?

Bit of a muddle, Quitters.

 

[Doggit]

So you accepted a decision without knowing with any clarity what the outcome would be -not great planning is that.

Some wing it, others need every dot and I dealt wth first.

If it was democratic to have a referendum why are you so afraid of having a referendum on the deal

If you truly accept that there was a decision to leave, then it should be left at that. Attempting to have a referendum on the deal, makes a mockery of the initial referendum decision. If you follow thatcourse of actiont, then one day, you'll vote on something, and then it'll get overturned because others didn't like your choice. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[SirGalahad]

Some wing it, others need every dot and I dealt wth first.



If you truly accept that there was a decision to leave, then it should be left at that. Attempting to have a referendum on the deal, makes a mockery of the initial referendum decision. If you follow thatcourse of actiont, then one day, you'll vote on something, and then it'll get overturned because others didn't like your choice. Be careful what you wish for.

Comprehension seems to lack with leavers. As pointed out to firebrand I accept the decision to leave - but I want to know what deal May will be offering, this will give clarity to everyone.

So once a deal is struck have even more information on what it exactly means to leave we are better informed to decide -to accept it or to ask May to negotiate further.

 

[JohnD]

I suppose that, if you're the sort of a person who buys a gold watch in a sealed box on the promises of the salesman, and doesn't complain when you find that instead of a gold watch it contains a dead rat, you'll be happy to stick with your dead rat.

Public opinion is moving against you.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, it seems obvious.

What if the deal is thought too unpleasant by even the quitters?

 

[SirGalahad]

Yes, it seems obvious.

What if the deal is thought too unpleasant by even the quitters?

Which is why we must have a referendum once we know what exactly is being offered. This is both sensible, pragmatic and democratic and anyone arguing against it is more from the position of trivialising this to "we won, you lost".

Btw doggit, even if Remain had won that would not mean there could not be future referendums on the issue again.

So saying we have had a referendum and that's it is not based on anything more than you saying its a final decision.

 

[noseall]

And we didn't bother with the intriciacies of a deal, because we trusted........

......the big red bus and all the other slogans. I reckon all those slogans and promises that enticed (swindled) many quitters into voting, were just a ruse.
Waddya think Doggit? Is this another reason why a lot of Quitters are getting cold feet?