Whats stopped you voting Labour

  • Thread starter Deleted member 294929
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A curiously short period shown in the Kingsfund graphic. Which ignores the huge extra costs of trying to cope with our increasingly old, and costly, population. The jump in spending in 2020 and 2021 was on Covid-19-specific activities outside of what the NHS usually does – including the UK’s very expensive Test and Trace programme.

A fuller graph is linked here:


"But while the NHS needs more each year merely to stand still in the face of rising prices, it also needs more simply to cope with changes in the population. Changes in the size of the English population – which has grown by 10.6 million since 1979 – mean that spending per person has not grown as fast as the total spend.

And it’s not only the population head count that has changed. So too has its demographic structure. In particular, the number of older people has grown, both in absolute terms and also as a proportion of the total population.

This has been most noticeable in the growing numbers of people aged 85 and over, who now make up around twice the proportion of the population compared to just 30 years ago. Over the same period, the proportion of the population aged 20 to 24 has shrunk by more than a fifth.

These changes make a significant difference to the demands put on the health care system, as someone in their mid-to-late eighties on average consumes around 10 times as much hospital-based care as someone in their early twenties.

Using estimates of the costs of hospital-based care for different age groups, our analysis shows that, on average, health care spending per person in England grew by around 2.6% a year in real terms between 1979/80 and 2020/21, after these changes in the demographic structure are taken into account. This excludes spending in 2020/21 ringfenced for Covid-19.

That 2.6% represents the available resources for the NHS over and above that which would be needed to keep up with inflation, population growth and the increasing health needs of an ageing demographic. It therefore gives an indication of what has been available to the NHS to do more than stand still: to improve the quality of care; adopt new treatments, drugs and technologies; reduce risk; and meet rising patient and public expectations.

As can be seen from the chart, this average increase has not been spread evenly. The last 40 years can be characterised as a period of increases averaging 2.1% in the 17 years prior to 1997, followed by 13 years of much higher growth, averaging 5.7% a year between 1997/98 and 2009/10.

But in the decade leading up to the pandemic, real-terms spending increases per head averaged just 0.4% a year and included four years in which spending per head actually fell. This has been a period of stagnation in terms of the resources available to the NHS to fund improvements in health care quality, or to expand its horizons of what it is possible to do for patients."

I don't understand what your point is - that you think it's accepatable or terrible. Here's a graph from the report you linked...

NHS2.jpg


Regardless of which line you're looking at, that's an utterly horrendous runaway rate of spending growth. Perhaps its rate of increase has reduced slightly since 2010 but it's still raging upwards, at a record high level every year. If it carries on like this, the NHS will be spending more than the country's entire government revenue. It's definitely not under-funded as the Labour liars continually claim.

I suspect that the tiny dip at the end has been well and truly wiped out by the covid and ongoing chaos since.
 
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We should build more hospitals using PFI, because that works really well doesn't it.
 
We should build more hospitals using PFI, because that works really well doesn't it.
As I'm sure you know, that's a major reason why it's in the mess it's in. All thanks to Gordon Brown's attempts at disguising the horrendous levels of public spending they were committing to.

There must be some hospital landlords that are very happy with the rent payments they get from the NHS. For cheap tatty buildings that were built on land that the NHS used to own.
 
some underlying issues then
Absolute cobblers. Mrs Mottie used to be a GP's receptionist. The ones that failed to attend were serial non-attenders.
some underlying issues then

Yes, they're crappy people.
Can't remember accurate numbers but 85% of the patients only cost the NHS 20% of the total.
Attend to the 15%. Only a few are crappy but they're part of the problem. Most of course are just very elderly or chronic.
Charge for second and more missed appointments.

Looking at European etc comparisons, the NHS is not management-heavy, or expensive.
French health head on TV recently thought we do well for the amount it all cost. It's, simply, expensive.

֍ People are living longer so there's more work,
֍ we know about more diseases/conditions which need treatment so there's more work,
֍ best treatments are ever more refined and complex and expensive
֍ yet we pay nurses less than drivers, and wonder why we can't retain staff. MIdwife needs degree (3 years) for normal nurse then
.....18 months more training, or a specialist midwife degree. Once working, "£31,534 with four or more years' experience".
.....Why do that when driving trains is a piece of píss and better paid?
֍ We need to get used to the idea that we have to pay excess in, most of our lives, to get those last few years covered.

What was wrong with the National Insurance hike, proposed?
 
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As I'm sure you know, that's a major reason why it's in the mess it's in. All thanks to Gordon Brown's attempts at disguising the horrendous levels of public spending they were committing to.

There must be some hospital landlords that are very happy with the rent payments they get from the NHS. For cheap tatty buildings that were built on land that the NHS used to own.
Launched in 92 by a Mr Major
 
Look at the money wasted on paying PFI contracts half a billion in interest last year enough to pay 15,000 newly qualified nurse
 
Look at the money wasted on paying PFI contracts half a billion in interest last year enough to pay 15,000 newly qualified nurse
The NHS didn't choose PFI, it was forced upon them.
 
Every other country in the world has a healthcare system, most of which you don't hear about as they just work, efficiently, and don't drain the country of a massive chunk of its GDP.

Lots of European countries look after their people fairly and without bankrupting themselves. There are huge lessons we could learn if only we could get past the idiotic group mental block we appear to have, where the NHS is somehow holy and nobody is allowed to say it's a complete mess.

Absolutely not true. You're posting crap on this.

Every other country? In Europe most of the Scandy and German speaking countries are OK, not the rest. France's was good but went tits up. Watch the news. Spain, Italy, all of Easter Europe, Greece, good bits, mostly quite poor. Rest of the world? A few good ones, the other 170 countries, no thanks.

In the US I know 2 ordinary people who went personally bankrupt because of medical costs.
I would have died in 2 countries where I needed private health care which wasn't available to locals. One was just a heavy course of steroids, another a small but vital operation.
 
oh so you think its properly managed , money is thrown about and wasted with no accountability
You're posting rubbish.

No accountability? Ignorant moron.
Countless managers - is that after you got to 10?
 
I'm waiting for you to say 'what happened to the extra 350 million a week' the NHS would receive after brexit?, go on, say it, make my day punk.
I'll do it for him if you promise to give a rational answer

Blup
 
Launched in 92 by a Mr Major
Major didn't actually invent the concept of renting stuff instead of buying, the idea's as old as the hills and everyone knows it's usually much more expensive in the long term.

Brown took the concept and ran with it, to stupid crazy levels of incompetent money wasting. All to disguise the scale of money-swilling he was embarking upon - if he'd committed to buying there would have been questions about the amounts involved. So instead he committed to renting, and paying much more but spread into the future to hide it from that year's accounts. We're still paying the horrendous cost of the contracts he tied us into.
 
You're posting rubbish.

No accountability? Ignorant moron.
Countless managers - is that after you got to 10?
oh f#ck we have an internet warrior . Very brave hiding behind a key board
Would you like to explain why the health minister a couple of years ago was getting rid of several layers of management before he moved on .
 
Apparently when the NHS has to bring in agency nurses to cover for staff shortages, it costs £2500 a shift for a nurse and £5500 for a doctor.
The more the NHS turns to the private sector the more it seems to cost the taxpayer, that wouldn't be a problem if there was a corresponding improvement in service.
 
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