When considering in or out:

[securespark]

How many on here were around in 1973? It was fantastic in the early 70's, then it went wrong.

Sure it was fantastic?

Rolf Harris 1973:

Jimmy Savile 1973:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-womble-to-film-top-of-the-pops-a6897591.html

Stuart Hall 1973:
http://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/b...hile_filming_it_s_a_knockout_in_ely_1_2179075

Paul Gadd 1973:

 

[JohnD]

immigrants are reckoned to cost the economy £30bn in tax credits, housing benefit, and child benefits, and that doesn't take in to account the necessary increase in housing and infrasturucture, plus the people to then staff them

Nonsense.

I'm sure you know, really, that immigrants put more into the economy than they take out; and more than most native-born brits.

If you're looking for a tax-dodging sponger, look no further than the billionaire boss of the anti-immigrant Daily Mail.

Immigrants1

• JohnD
• 27 Mar 2017

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Brown then encouraged more (immigrants) because the number of old people is increasing per 1000 actually in work

Importing young immigrants to prop up an aging population is such a baffling argument. It is literally a pyramid scheme.

 

[DaveHerns]

Maybe it seems better because people treated each other better in those days and the cultures of greed , envy and " me , me , me " hadn't started?

 

[Doggit]

Importing young immigrants to prop up an aging population is such a baffling argument. It is literally a pyramid scheme.

Exactly, but politicians can't see that. Because we fund pensions out of current tax receipts, all they can see is that you then need more people working to support an ever increasing aeging population; which then means that you need more housing and infrastructure, and even more immigrants (because the native population having less kids), and so the argument continues. If we interviewed the politicians to see if they are acturally qualified to run the country, we'd disqualify about 85% of the current bunch. Unfortunately, Labour politicised the civil service, and made them subserviant to parliment, but it was the civil servant that were qualified enough to warn the politicians whether an idea would work or not.

 

[Doggit]

I'm sure you know, really, that immigrants put more into the economy than they take out; and more than most native-born brits.

Sorry John, knowing you would jump down my throat, I should have qualified my post by saying that "some" of the immigrant currently here on low wages cost us £30bn in benefits. I completely accept that there are a lot here that make a good solid contribution to the economy, but where I live, I can see many of those that dont. I have no wish to stop immigration, only to control it, and I'd make the Brists that can work, go and get a job.

And as to your 5 facts, the 5.5 million Brits living abroad are emigrants from the UK, and immigrants to another country.

 

[JohnD]

And "some" of the native-born brits cost us a fortune.

So?

I don't know how many passports you've checked of these "immigrants" you mention. Maybe some of them are native born and have hair or skin that's a different colour to yours.

 

[wobs]

Sorry John, knowing you would jump down my throat, I should have qualified my post by saying that "some" of the immigrant currently here on low wages cost us £30bn in benefits. I completely accept that there are a lot here that make a good solid contribution to the economy, but where I live, I can see many of those that dont. I have no wish to stop immigration, only to control it, and I'd make the Brists that can work, go and get a job.

EU immigrants are a net contributor to the UK economy. Far more than non-EU immigrants.

And as to your 5 facts, the 5.5 million Brits living abroad are emigrants from the UK, and immigrants to another country.

Ah yes, lets not forget those retired Brits living in Spain, that receive health care funding help from the UK. Assuming many come back to the UK after Brexit, it will cost far more per person to care for them in the UK, and we will have less trained people to care for them as many will have moved back to Poland etc.

So we have the double whammy of a shortage of care staff/NHS staff, coupled with more people that will need to be cared for. And with a projected lowering of GDP, it is likely we'll have less money to address this issue.
Go team!

 

[Judy in the sky]

Assuming many come back to the UK after Brexit, it will cost far more per person to care for them in the UK, and we will have less trained people to care for them as many will have moved back to Poland etc.

Who has said, or stated that "Many will move back to Poland"? Specially those in the NHS who have much needed skills? I know many EU nurses and HCA's working in the NHS and believe me, they have no intention of leaving to return to the same sort of working week for less than half the wages they receive here. Far less return to a lower standard of living.

 

[wobs]

Who has said, or stated that "Many will move back to Poland"? Specially those in the NHS who have much needed skills? I know many EU nurses and HCA's working in the NHS and believe me, they have no intention of leaving to return to the same sort of working week for less than half the wages they receive here. Far less return to a lower standard of living.

Poland's economy is growing, and its government is offering incentives for families to return to Poland (eg. £100 child benefit scheme regardless of earnings).

And many Poles are finding the UK tough, with expensive trains, lack of social mobility, education, uncertainty about Brexit - all reasons cited for returning, or planning to return.

 

[noseall]

Importing young immigrants to prop up an aging population...blah, blah, blah.....

What would you suggest Ges?

 

[JohnD]

And many Poles are finding the UK tough, with expensive trains, lack of social mobility, education, uncertainty about Brexit - all reasons cited for returning, or planning to return.

not to mention being abused and murdered.

 

[Doggit]

What would you suggest Ges?

We need a far sighted chancellor, and desperately need both a right thinking Government and and opposition that'll pull together for the sake of the country, rather than their own game of politics. We need to bring back our manufacturing base, and make things that the world wants, and we need investment in our firms to help them achieve that. We need to make it a law for people to save any institutional money that they handle, rather than view it as their own personal stash to dole out to the undeserving colleagues, that'll then scratch their backs when they also screw up. We need to promote and support whistleblowers, so no one is afraid to speak up, and the NHS needs every manager clearing out, and being reassesed before being rehired. We need polotcians that only work for parliment, and don't have second jobs and unlimited expenses, and we need them to stop expecting gold plated pensions. We need to make bankers afraid of getting jailed if they devise rip off schemes, and we need a fraud squad that will actually send people to jail for fraud, even if that requires the use of lie detectors or voice stress tests.

And we desperately need a probity and honesty law that stops companies from trying to rip us off with hidden charges, or downright lies.

Okay, now I'll stop living in cloud cuckoo land for a bit.

 

[JohnD]

I know many EU nurses and HCA's working in the NHS and believe me, they have no intention of leaving to return to the same sort of working week for less than half the wages they receive here. Far less return to a lower standard of living.

Let me just check that

"Record numbers of EU nurses quit NHS"

"The number of EU nationals registering as nurses in England has dropped by 92% since the Brexit referendum in June, and a record number are quitting the NHS, it can be revealed.


The shock figures have prompted warnings that Theresa May’s failure to offer assurances to foreigners living in the UK is exacerbating a staffing crisis in the health service.

Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum.

At the same time, freedom of information responses compiled by the Liberal Democrats from 80 of the 136 NHS acute trusts in England show that 2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase.

The haemorrhaging of foreign staff is being blamed by the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) on the failure of the government to provide EU nationals in the UK with any security about their future"

H'mmmm

Is it possible that what Judy tells us is wrong?

Yes it is.


"European nurses shun Britain after EU vote

"Figures from the Nursing and Midwifery Council show that the number of new nurses from around Europe has dropped to a quarter of previous levels.

In each month from September to December in 2015, an average of 797 EU nurses signed up to work in the UK. This fell to 194 a month over the same period last year.

Figures also show that 2,700 EU nurses already working in the UK left the NMC register last year. NHS data indicates that one in every 15 nurses and midwives working in the NHS in England is from another EU country."

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/european-nurses-shun-britain-after-eu-vote-252zpnmtk

also
https://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/...e-in-nurses-quitting-register/5065402.article

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/rise...-brexit-year/story-30217768-detail/story.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...oming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/76...-NHS-as-Brexit-vote-makes-them-feel-unwelcome

perhaps he works somewhere else.

believe me

I think not.

 

[Judy in the sky]

Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum.

At the same time, freedom of information responses compiled by the Liberal Democrats from 80 of the 136 NHS acute trusts in England show that 2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase.

The haemorrhaging of foreign staff is being blamed by the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) on the failure of the government to provide EU nationals in the UK with any security about their future"

H'mmmm

Is it possible that what Judy tells us is wrong?

Yes it is.

Hmmmm All at a time when NHS funding is lagging behind what is actually needed. John. Please do some research into recruitment in the NHS. It's recruiting less than before the referendum. So, could these figures be slanted to make it look like the referendum has caused this ? Can you categorically state that these "EU nurses" who have left the NHS have actually left the UK ? The figures don't show where they've gone do they? Increasingly nurses (from all countries including home grown UK nationals) are leaving the NHS because they see the pressures they are under. Tell me John, do you work a twelve and a half hour shift, then stay on for another hour (totally unpaid) at the end of that shift, to catch up on paperwork/ records, because you are not allocated enough time within that shift to do it? Then come back to do the same thing the next day and the next? Have you put in a holiday request at work only to be turned down time and time again because there's not enough staff to cover holidays? Do you lose holiday entitlement at the end of the holiday year because you just haven't been able to take those holiday entitlements? (not even been allowed to take those holiday entitlements) Thought not. Where you work, you probably either take your full holiday entitlement, or at the end of the year, any holidays still left owing are carried forward to next years entitlement? Not in the NHS John. I suggest you apply for any job in the NHS (at least one which you're obviously qualified for,,, cleaner, or porter for instance)