When considering in or out:

[JohnD]

so you're saying it's a hard job

Tell me John, do you work a twelve and a half hour shift... (etc)

Are you going to tell us that it was a great job until after the referendum?

If that were true (it isn't) then you could have a go at using it as an excuse.

"2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase"

"Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum"

Do you think there are many Polish NHS workers in Harlow? Will they be encouraging the friends and colleagues to come over?


"Polish men attacked in 'hate crime' hours after murdered Pole's vigil in Harlow"

"Essex police treating 'vicious' incident as a potential hate crime"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...urdered-vigil-arek-j-wik-brexit-a7225166.html

"Brexit: Polish Embassy responds after spark in reports of hate crime and racial abuse"

"Immigrants and their descendants are allegedly being stopped in the street and 'ordered to leave Britain' "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...polish-latest-leave-immigration-a7105746.html

Thank goodness the NHS will soon be getting an extra £350million a week eh? Ooops, sorry, that was a Brexiteer lie.

 

[Ihavenojob]

FFS change the record, you lost, get over it. Mind you, it's more than likely that you win in the end after article 50

 

[Judy in the sky]

John, please read my previous post and answer my questions.
A, Do you work a 12.5 hr shift and have to stay behind for an hour or more unpaid to catch up with paperwork etc because no time has been allocated to do this?
B, Do you often have holiday requests turned down?
C, Do you lose out on holiday entitlement at the end of the holiday year because requests for holiday entitlement has been refused throughout the year?
D, Have all of these EU nurses who have left the NHS, actually left the UK as well?
(don't forget your links,, and please. please keep on topic on this one instead of mentioning attacks on immigrants in Harlow). Obfuscating does you no favours.

 

[blightymam]

( please keep on topic on this one instead of mentioning attacks on immigrants in Harlow).

JohnD keeps going on about it being a 'potential' hate crime when in reality, prosecutors are not treating it as such now it's going to court.
It just happens to suit JohnD's anti-Brexit agenda, true or not.

 

[JohnD]

don't be silly, dear.

My working arrangements are nothing to do with you, and have no effect on the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

Interestingly, abuse, attacks and murders do have an effect on the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

I see you want to avoid mention of the increase in resignations and the decrease in recruits. Which demonstrate the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

You must be finding these truths terribly difficult to contemplate.

 

[blightymam]

I see you want to avoid mention of the resignations and the lack of recruits. Which demonstrate the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

Is that in the same way that you ignored the points we made about how little the amount of overseas docs and nurses we are losing is in comparison to the lack of recruits by our government caused? The fact our training places for docs and nurses were cut some years ago, causing a shortage, one that we are feeling now? Or how about, despite the NHS badly needing nurses etc, the government instead of helping, cut the bursaries leaving us with just under 10,000 fewer applicants this year? That's an awful lot of potential nursing staff we've lost.

Which has made our situation worse in the NHS? Brexit and a handful of tossers who like to be racist, or a government who deliberately and systematically caused a shortage of hospital staff by cutting back funds for training?

How about you put it into perspective for a change JohnD. Sure, any racism or hatred is unacceptable, but it is not going to cause the demise of the NHS. The government are doing that very well and have been for some years - long before Brexit.

 

[JohnD]

Take a look at the top of the page, or get someone to read it to you.

I see you brushing aside the abuse, attacks and murders, but you can't bring yourself to face the shrinking supply of overseas workers.

"2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase"

"Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum"

 

[Judy in the sky]

don't be silly, dear.

My working arrangements are nothing to do with you, and have no effect on the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

Interestingly, abuse, attacks and murders do have an effect on the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

I see you want to avoid mention of the increase in resignations and the decrease in recruits. Which demonstrate the unwillingness of foreign people to work in the UK.

You must be finding these truths terribly difficult to contemplate.

Still doesn't answer my questions to you. Honestly, asking you some pimple questions and trying to get a straight answer is like asking a chocolate teapot not to melt when filled with hot tea.
As for me avoiding questions, I think I've already explained some of the resignations and decrease in NHS recruits. (lack of government investment in the NHS does affect recruitment, as well you know) You just can't keep setting on people when there's no money available (or is that simple fact beyond you?)
Still, you're the master of obfuscation once again. Probably because you don't have any answers (to my questions)
Come on John, just answer my questions. (you can't) I now think your "working arrangements" must be signing on the dotted line once a fortnight, whilst "keyboard warrior" is probably what you put down on your CV, for (uninterested) employers.

 

[Judy in the sky]

Take a look at the top of the page, or get someone to read it to you.

I see you brushing aside the abuse, attacks and murders, but you can't bring yourself to face the shrinking supply of overseas workers.

"2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase"

"Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum"

And yet again, refusing to check whether recruitment has slowed. Come on John, I'm sure you can do better than just put up a quote without links. As for the training mentioned by blightyman, have a guess at what percentage of training funds (available to the NHS) go towards nurses and HCA's (the backbone of the NHS) Not forgetting that foreign nurses have to undergo the conversion course, which counts as training.... . Go on ,, have a wild guess.

 

[noseall]

Mind you, it's more than likely that you win in the end after article 50

Win what exactly?

We will still have free movement of people because of Brits abroad.

We will still give a huge chunk of cash to the EU.

We won't be giving the NHS the £350 mil as promised.

We will lose a huge chunk of young fit keen workers to be replaced by lazy indigenous goodfornowts.

We will lose all single market privileges.

I'll have to charge my customers more to fund my ever costly holidays abroad because of the plummeting pound.

Yes well done Brexiteers, take a bow. Looks like everyone will lose as a result of Brexit.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

"2,700 EU nurses left the health service in 2016, compared to 1,600 EU nurses in 2014 – a 68% increase"

"Only 96 nurses joined the NHS from other European nations in December 2016 – a drop from 1,304 in July, the month after the referendum"

If, in a couple of years, the number of immigrant nurses from non-EU countries increases by an equivalent proportion, will you again be posting the fact in bold?

We will still have free movement of people because of Brits abroad.

Doesn't this contradict your point below about goodfornowts?

We will still give a huge chunk of cash to the EU.

But it won't be paid in perpetuity. It's just a severment fee.

We won't be giving the NHS the £350 mil as promised.

Thank gawd for that.

We will lose a huge chunk of young fit keen workers to be replaced by lazy indigenous goodfornowts.

What?

We will lose all single market privileges.

But aquire freer access to non-EU markets.

I'll have to charge my customers more to fund my ever costly holidays abroad because of the plummeting pound.

If that bothers you, don't go on holidays abroad.

 

[JohnD]

a quote without links.

Don't be silly.

Get a grown up to explain what those strange blue things are in my previous posts.

 

[wobs]

But aquire freer access to non-EU markets.

Can't wait to find out what these are.

Given that the EU has a population of over 500million, is wealthy, and on our doorstep.... what market are we going to exploit to replace that, that we don't already? And try to remember that its not just manufacturing (of which we tend to do high value goods), but also financial services (FS)(such as banking). FS constitute the biggest portion of our GDP, way bigger than manufacturing, and will be harder hit by Brexit than manufacturing. FS brings in over £60billion per year in taxes, and that's before you consider taxes from wages (who are high earners. Yes they avoid tax, but they do actually pay it as well - its not a black & white issue.

In fact, do you have any evidence that we will be better off post Brexit?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

what market are we going to exploit to replace that, that we don't already?

So what you're saying is, despite being in the EU, we still exploit all the worlds markets. Great! So... why can we not also exploit the Single Market when we're out of the EU, as if it were just another world market? Because the EU did the bargaining for us, is that it? Or because the EU is protectionist?

FS constitute the biggest portion of our GDP, way bigger than manufacturing,

Yep. And why is that? And why does it matter? Is it better to base your GDP on FS than on manufacturing? If you'd told the Brits of the 1960s that within a generation manufacturing would be decimated, don't you think they'd make the same argument?

FS brings in over £60billion per year in taxes, and that's before you consider taxes from wages (who are high earners. Yes they avoid tax, but they do actually pay it as well - its not a black & white issue.

What matters more, tax or employment? High-profit finacial services concentrated in London are great... for London. I don't live in London.

In fact, do you have any evidence that we will be better off post Brexit?

Yes, about as much as Nostradamus...

 

[JohnD]

I think he means Somalia and Khazakstan.

I can't understand why we haven't already been selling to such markets, if they're so large and prosperous.

I wonder how much Welsh lamb we can sell to New Zealand.