Will the worlds economy crash when cars are all electric

[HawkEye244]

If you want to know more about water and how it can be farmed more efficienctly look into yeomans keyline plough system. It fundamentally involves running a keyline plough across the existing topography to manipulate surface water drainage, and is a perfectly sustainable method, nothing to do with dams, which cause a great deal of environmental destruction both up and down stream.

This guy was doing it in the 1950's : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyline_design, and there is so much untapped knowledge. I came across it reading about Richard Perkins permaculture : http://www.ridgedalepermaculture.com/

This guy is running a sustainable organic farm with multiple revenue streams, all of them beyond organic actually (biodynamic), and a lot of younger farmers are following his lead. He's showing that regenerative agriculture can be achieved, and can be rolled out at scale.

There's also Alan Savory, and his work on holistic management of livestock to maintain and rejuvenate grassland.

The truth is we have all the answers, we just haven't yet implemented them. I agree water and food will be major problems, because we are destroying our environment and topsoil, and most of the population have no real skills in this area (growing crops etc).

 

[bernardgreen]

How did we manage before cars became affordable. ?

Suburban London, 1960's

The young man's image blurred to protect his identity.

 

[transam]

What about HGV lorries has any one brought out an electric HGV yet ??
For leccy cars en-masse there will need to be a massive investment in the U.K's infrastructure ???

Incidentally new rules kick in in April 2018 for gas boilers in particular combis

 

[Roger928]

I assume electric will only be for cars where small loads are carried?
Van drivers and those carrying loads will still use diesel?

 

[Roger928]

How did we manage before cars became affordable

Just fine.
Without fast transport the services you need stay local. So no need to travel very far.

 

[bernardgreen]

Incidentally new rules kick in in April 2018 for gas boilers in particular combis

Hopefully the new rules will include the requirement for manufacturers to provide detail of how their boilers are tested on testing institutes and thus explode the myths about super efficiency values which cannot be achieved in normal domestic use.

 

[bernardgreen]

What about HGV lorries has any one brought out an electric HGV yet ??

Flywheel energery storage from the 1950's

http://photo.proaktiva.eu/digest/2008_gyrobus.html

and some discussion about it here

https://www.englishforum.ch/other-general/116213-swiss-gyrobus-gyroscope-powered-bus.html

 

[noseall]

Hopefully the new rules will include the requirement for manufacturers to provide detail of how their boilers are tested on testing institutes and thus explode the myths about super efficiency values which cannot be achieved in normal domestic use.

Car boilers? What 'new rules'?

 

[bernardgreen]

Incidentally new rules kick in in April 2018 for gas boilers in particular combis

Car boilers? What 'new rules'?

I am sure transam is refering to rules about domestic boilers and the need to conserve fuel.

 

[noseall]

I am sure transam

Ahh gotcha. I have not seen a post from Transam since 2nd October.

 

[Doggit]

I'm not convinced on the "renewables will solve everything" argument, and I think there needs to be a major shift in thinking. We like Mangos, so they get transported in heavily polluting container ships, but would we be happy going back to only buying things locally grown in season, and could we grow enough to feed ourselves in this country. The growth in worlds economy has in may ways, contributed to the pollution, and we're now being hammered by high taxes to reduce it, but will those measures now reduce the growth, and start to shrink nations, or will it plunge some countries into poverty, and then cause a knock on effect to the rest of the world.

Is there a level of pollution and environmental destruction that we have to accept, in order to maintain a stable economy; and one that I feel will need to shrink to find that sustainable level.

I never thought I would ever end up following some of the Green parties ideas, but if going electric to reduce carbon emissions then drops the price of oil, just where will the world be in 20 years time.

 

[gasbanni]

Electric car batteries use a rare element ......so mass use of them is a no go from the start !

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is what 30 years away before mass use is envisaged.

A link I've posted in the past is interesting if somewhat frightening ........feasible alternative technologies yeah right if any thing was as easy as oil don't you think someone would have introduced it as a competitor ?

 

[EFLImpudence]

What am I missing?

I do not understand why the price of oil dropping - because it is no longer required - would lead to a crash in the world's economy.

 

[Notch7]

Electric car batteries use a rare element ......so mass use of them is a no go from the start !

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is what 30 years away before mass use is envisaged.

A link I've posted in the past is interesting if somewhat frightening ........feasible alternative technologies yeah right if any thing was as easy as oil don't you think someone would have introduced it as a competitor ?

Current technology of course uses Lithium, which isnt actually that rare, current estimates are around 365 years worth on current usage. But that would come down if vast amounts of caf batteries are made with them.

Of course its ironic that an awful lot of energy is used to extract and create the lithium so the embodied energy is high.

There is also a lot of embodied energy in wind turbines, esp in the concrete pad they sit on. The argument for renewables and green technology is not that straightforward.

New battery technology is the holy grail but so far only incremental improvements in lithium technology are available, theres nothing new.

 

[Tigercubrider]

Electric trucks are being developed already
Electric vans (for loads of tradesmen) already exist i.e. Milkfloats. ( which go slowly mainly because of their loads) most trade vans spend 80% of their time as sheds either at home or customers houses and don't do high milages
The electricity industry is already saying that new technology means that the predicted " power shortages" just won't happen