Wiring of Isolators for kitchen appliances

[mikhailfaradayski]

agree that you need an easily accessible means of isolation, i just disagree that it is required to be above the counter.

Sockets into cupboard would:-

-Put all sockets on the ring, you now dont need to worry about overloading the D/P switch, or cable between D/P and unswitched socket.

-Take cost of D/P's out of the equation.

-Leave you with less unsightly switches above the counter, perhaps making tiling a bit easier.

-Still allow you to access the Plug top for appliances, for whatever reason, without pulling appliances out.

 

[flameport]

Would it not be possible to do away with the D/P switches and simply pull the ring legs down and install double sockets in the adjacent base units?

A much easier, cheaper and more sensible option. Single unswitched socket fitted on the side of the cupboard, at the top about half way between the front and back so it doesn't get hidden by things in the cupboard.
A round hole cut in the side of the cupboard next to the socket for the plug to go through (hole nearer the back so you don't see it when the door is open)

This means:
No problems with space, as if you put a socket with a plug in on the back wall, there might not be enough room to push the appliance in fully.
No need to cut plugs off, change them for other types (round pins?) or have the hassle of connecting it to a plate at the back of a cabinet.
No rows of switches or FCUs all over the kitchen, (most of which will never be switched off)
No double fusing (fuse in plug and FCU).
No switching the freezer or fridge off by mistake.
No arguments over whether 20A grid switches are suitable for use on ring finals.

As for sockets and other items not being fixed to 'kitchen furniture' - kitchen furniture is a table, chair, or other freestanding item.
Kitchen units are securely fixed to the wall, the units either side and the worktop above them.
Still not convinced? Kitchen units are made from chipboard which is fixed to the wall. So is the board that most electricity meters and consumer units are fixed to.

 

[SUNRAY]

Would it not be possible to do away with the D/P switches and simply pull the ring legs down and install double sockets in the adjacent base units?

A much easier, cheaper and more sensible option. Single unswitched socket fitted on the side of the cupboard, at the top about half way between the front and back so it doesn't get hidden by things in the cupboard.
A round hole cut in the side of the cupboard next to the socket for the plug to go through (hole nearer the back so you don't see it when the door is open)

This means:
No problems with space, as if you put a socket with a plug in on the back wall, there might not be enough room to push the appliance in fully.
No need to cut plugs off, change them for other types (round pins?) or have the hassle of connecting it to a plate at the back of a cabinet.
No rows of switches or FCUs all over the kitchen, (most of which will never be switched off)
No double fusing (fuse in plug and FCU).
No switching the freezer or fridge off by mistake.
No arguments over whether 20A grid switches are suitable for use on ring finals.

As for sockets and other items not being fixed to 'kitchen furniture' - kitchen furniture is a table, chair, or other freestanding item.
Kitchen units are securely fixed to the wall, the units either side and the worktop above them.
Still not convinced? Kitchen units are made from chipboard which is fixed to the wall. So is the board that most electricity meters and consumer units are fixed to.

This system seems so obvious to me but is open to interpretation and often 'fails' a PIR... no I don't know why either

 

[ColJack]

kitchen units may be made of chipboard, but tey certainly aren't fixed to the wall, the base units anyway.
the are free-standing and screwed together.. .. at least mine were..

as for "same stuff the meter backboards are made off", that's not true either.. the CU backboards are made with fire resistant resins and such. they are also not covered in melamine..

 

[SUNRAY]

But does it have to be screwed to the wall to have electrics fitted?

If thats correct how do we supply hobs, ovens etc?

Does this follow on to school lab benches?

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[flameport]

It's no worse than a row of unlabelled switches above the worktop. Saw a house recently where there was a 20A switch directly above the built in dishwasher. However the switch had nothing to do with the dishwasher - it controlled the immersion heater on the floor above. Elsewhere in the kitchen there was an FCU above the washing machine. It was actually for the cooker hood.

Banks of grid switches are no good either - while they may be labelled, this is only of use if you already know where the set of switches is located.

Appliance leads - not sure why you think they need to be that long, the socket would be directly next to the appliance, just on the other side of a chipboard panel (the side of the cupboard).

Appliances going wrong in such a way that the power needs to be turned off is rare, as most faults will cause the MCB or RCD to disconnect the power. If it doesn't, most people know where their consumer unit is.
Other rooms are even worse - if a television was switched on and flames came out of it, no one is going to be reaching behind it to switch it off at the socket.

 

[scoobasteve]

After returning from work today to find missus had washer, dryer, dishwasher, router and cordless telephone all plugged into extension leads leading back to one single socket and everything was working fine without it appears overloading the circuit or blowing any of the 13a fuses (including the one taking all the load through it in the plug at the socket) I'm no longer too worried about a double socket off a fcu being a problem!

Will have kitchen wired like this - washer/dishwasher running off a 13a fcu, dryer and hob ignition off another 13a fcu, fridge freezer & built in microwave will be on a socket on main ring so the kids can't switch off the power to it from a fcu!

Oh and Re. the discussion about fixing a socket to a base unit - the dryer/hob socket is going to be in the middle of an island unit and will be in a surface mount box screwed to one of the units.

Cheers for all the advice.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

As far as i'm aware, Napit and The NIC are ok with sockets inside cupboards so long as they are secured (doesn't include fitting to flimsy back boards.) cant say for other scheme providers.

I personally feel that sockets brought to the front of a cupboard, adjacent to the device it supplies is easily accessible, but if you use 20A D/P' to drop to unswitched sockets behind integrated appliances means the connections at the socket back are not accessible for inspection.