Yale or Respones wireless alarm??

[Alarm]

Quote "Indeed I will icon_lol.gif

You are for once correct about the Yale or at least the 6300 family or 6400 premium systems. " Unquote.

I know i`m correct with the latter and indeed most Yale systems. So thank you for the almost correct terminology used there. In fact I know a lot about Yale systems as because you go on so much I have read every manual, apart from dealing with a few over the years ( hence the mentions of the limitaions before). Note read all the manuals, as they are freely available to anyone..........but thats another story isnt it

It seems again your leaping to defence and then blaming certain people about issues that have not actually been involved.
For instance I have not bashed Yale once here, mentioned others comments but not bashed them. In fact as you agree i have said they are better than another system mentioned ( in my book anyway).

Oh all hail the 6200, at least now the fobs have moved on from dipswitches. And in a Void property a G2 would most probably have a GSM dialler to let us know there are issues. What does the 6200 do? Apart from chirp when disarmed a month before it dies?

 

[yaleguy3]

Oh all hail the 6200, at least now the fobs have moved on from dipswitches. And in a Void property a G2 would most probably have a GSM dialler to let us know there are issues. What does the 6200 do? Apart from chirp when disarmed a month before it dies?

Is the G2 battery powered? No Would the g2 gsm dialler work if the mains was off or if the mains failed for more than 12 hrs? No

First of all the use of the 6200 was to demonstrate that an effective alarm can be set up EVEN in a property with no electricity

If the property has electricity the you could use instead a 6300 or even a 6400 if you wanted an alarm that called out. You can have a gsm call out if you wish too with the addition of a ptsn gsm dialler

In fact if you really wanted belt and braces you could have a mains powered system but add in an extra external siren programmed as a master so that if electricity failed even for twenty four hours or more the same sensors that report to the control panel would also report to the siren acting as a master.

You wouldn't need extra sensors you would simply learn the sensors into both systems. The only downside being an inability to alter the master sirens 20 second entry/exit default but since in 95% of all installations the owners are happy with the default 20 seconds it most likely would not be an issue.


It seems the sticking point for everyone over the issue of a Yale alarm is about the batteries giving up.

Its really dead simple. If you find the right shop you can buy a full set of replacement batteries for only £14

swap them every two years or 18 months if you feel like being anticipatory (only takes half an hour if you know what you are doing and have a ladder)

That even at 18month replacements works out at less than £10 a year in upkeep.

When you replace the batteries you dust the sensors and walk test the sensor and bingo all set up for another 2yrs

If you really want your alarm to still call out from your void property then set the yale up the gsm dialler with a car battery and charger from the mains with a 12v croc clip set up to the power in.

I am not sure exactly how long that set up would last without power but it would be ridiculously long and measured in months not just 12hrs as the spec for a G2 system currently states.

 

[yaleguy3]

Note read all the manuals, as they are freely available to anyone.......

Not quite up to speed as the manuals do not cover undocumented features which only come to light when you have the experience of may installs.
You probably read the manuals on the basis of being able to trip me up if I made a wrong claim or advice but however I am glad you have read them.

What you will have discovered by reading the manuals is that the systems other than not being to graded standard are actually very comprehensive and that they have many failsafes built in to them.
The issue of not being 866Mhz has been a non issue for me in reality with only one system ever being diagnosed as a possible frequency issue.
Inteference from local devices (wifi etc) solved easliy by keeping the control panel 1 mtr away from the wireless router. However that was again only in one particular instance when in fact when tested every other system has sat happily next door to a wireless router without any problems at all.
Yale have done a great job in anticipating all the possible service issues.

If they changed it's frequency to 866Mhz and gave the panel the ability to lock out users with a master engineer code then there is no reason why the yale if tested would not meet Grade 2

Of course it will never pass muster if the moment you walk out the door after installing the homeowner can delve around the settings and disable sensors etc.
Yes it happens and the reason is obvious. When the fault light comes on and its starts beeping every 30 seconds the homeowners don't want to spend a small amount having their batteries changed so mess about themselves and screw things up. I then get a call asking for assisitance and I turn up to find they have removed all the devices from the system leaving them alarmless.
My advice to anyone with a yale is to leave well alone unless you are absolutely 100% sure of what you are doing.

But then the whole concept of the DIY alarm really is a bit flawed when you consider the points I raised earlier to Europlex even though he totally ignored them.
Security survey , System design , location of devices , best use of the system etc etc.
When someone takes on board my advice and allows me to set up the system I believe is correct for their circumstances I am a happy bunny.

Happier than someone in a big house may be when a nationwide installer comes around and tells them one door contact and 3 pirs and a dummy box plus a monitoring contract are all they need to protect their large detached property.

They must feel gutted whe someone breaks into the study takes their laptop , i-phone keys etc and leaves via the same window and the alarm doesn't go off.

 

[bernardgreen]

Siren battery change When the batteries start getting low the siren will produce a series of pips and flashes during arming
and disarming.
1 Switch off tamper protection at the control unit as described in section 4 ‘Mounting alarm devices’.
2 Remove the siren lid and switch the siren power switch to OFF.
3 Unscrew the four screws on the battery compartment lid and remove the cover.
4 Remove the four batteries and replace them with four fresh alkaline “D” cells.
5 Switch on siren power and check that the siren beeps and flashes.

All this work might be at the top of a ladder that the owner seldom uses.

Take care of your safety
Display extreme caution when using ladders or steps, please follow manufacturer’s instructions.
Be careful when using hand and power tools and follow the manufacturer’s guidelines when using them. Take care that the correct tools are used.Wear goggles or protective clothing where required. The external Siren is extremely loud, please ensure
you replace the cover and retreat to a safe distance before testing.

How does the owner know when the batteries need replacing when they have become so discharged as be be un-able to produce a series of pips and flashes during arming and disarming. How long can the battery low indication go un-noticed before the siren becomes un-able to indicate battery low ( dead ) status. Include in that calculation a normal alarm indication due to intruders being detected or the "anti" jamming function sounding the siren.

How does the owner know the tamper is disabled when he is changing the batteries in the siren. If it has failed to disable and there is no indication to warn the owner then the tamper will trigger the siren. Sudden and un-expected very loud noise, top of ladder, panic ?

Does each siren have a unique identity that the control panel must send when it switches off the tamper protection. I do NOT mean the users PIN but a device address that ensures the siren will only accept the "tamper off" command from its "own" control panel.

The mention of removing control panel away from sources of RF energy is sensible. The same applies to the siren with its receiver ( assumed to be the same RX front end as used in the control panel ) being possibly prone to blocking ( or jamming ) by other sources of radio frequency energy ( accidental or intentional )

 

[Alarm]

You probably read the manuals on the basis of being able to trip me up if I made a wrong claim or advice but however I am glad you have read them.

Why? Silly mind games are not my style. You quote a lot about them so I investigated.

If they changed it's frequency to 866Mhz and gave the panel the ability to lock out users with a master engineer code then there is no reason why the yale if tested would not meet Grade 2

Many other reasons actually, not just the frequency ( which is wrong BTW).
DD243 PD662 EN51031 also have an impact.

They must feel gutted whe someone breaks into the study takes their laptop , i-phone keys etc and leaves via the same window and the alarm doesn't go off.

You have proof of this?

On average two pirs and a contact are not what a "national would supply.
It is however the "average" kit supplied in a DIY kit.

You do know how to make an argument sound valid, right up to the point when it is actually looked at in depth. You have more bunny than the average Rep on commission, and thats not meant as an insult before you or anyone else who likes to pop in and contribute when they actually know nothing about alarm systems. let alone fire, access CCTV ect.

 

[yaleguy3]

All this work might be at the top of a ladder that the owner seldom uses.

Which is exactly the reason I started offering this service.

How does the owner know when the batteries need replacing when they have become so discharged as be be un-able to produce a series of pips and flashes during arming and disarming.

They obviously need replacing once the pips and flashes start
There is approx 3 weeks battery life left once you start to get these indications.

How does the owner know the tamper is disabled when he is changing the batteries in the siren. If it has failed to disable and there is no indication to warn the owner then the tamper will trigger the siren. Sudden and un-expected very loud noise, top of ladder, panic ?

With a 6200 system the remote keypad or keyfob can put turn the siren tamper off from the ground before you go near the siren. You get a confirm beep to tell you the instruction signal has been received.
On the 6400 system you set the siren tamper off using a menu system on its lcd screen.

Does each siren have a unique identity that the control panel must send when it switches off the tamper protection. I do NOT mean the users PIN but a device address that ensures the siren will only accept the "tamper off" command from its "own" control panel.

Yes. The control panel has its own unique id and is learnt into the siren the same as a keypad or keyfob. The siren will only accept instructions from a device whos ID it recognises.
I fitted 20 yale alarms on a park home site many in adjacent units and didn't have a single crossover problem.
(Actually I tell a lie , I had just finished installing one system when the owner decided he didn't want a pir in his bathroom afterall but a window contact. So I put the pir back in my toolbag to use in another installation. Forgetting of course I had just enrolled it into his system.
The next day I was installing in a park home on the opposite side of the road and when I unpacked the pir to install it in the new property and opened the cover the alarm suddenly went off accross the street.
Of course I had just triggered its tamper.
I had to remove that sensors batteries and make sure I installed it in future on another system a lot further away.)

The mention of removing control panel away from sources of RF energy is sensible. The same applies to the siren with its receiver ( assumed to be the same RX front end as used in the control panel ) being possibly prone to blocking ( or jamming ) by other sources of radio frequency energy ( accidental or intentional )

There is only a metre distance that is recommended in the installation instructions.
You are advised not to have two seperate systems (adjoining houses) with sirens within 1 metre of each other.

 

[Europlex]

You are advised not to have two seperate systems (adjoining houses) with sirens within 1 metre of each other.

Love it, another valid reason for using Pro kit, be it wired or wireless, don't have to say any more.

 

[yaleguy3]

You haven't understood what was meant have you? incredible

 

[bernardgreen]

They obviously need replacing once the pips and flashes start
There is approx 3 weeks battery life left once you start to get these indications

Suppose the owner doesn't notice the pips and flashes. ( say he is on holiday ). Then the siren sounds for some reason ( genuine alarm, false alarm or a reponse to a blocking or jamming signal ), How does that use of the dwindling battery power affect the "approx 3 weeks" before the siren will be unable to create pips and flashes.

Important because if the owner does not see the warning pips and flashes indicating low battery he may assume the siren still has battery power.

The need to separate siren boxes by at least one metre is worrying. They are ( apparently ) receive only with no transmitter. A receiver should not affect another receiver even if they are in close proximity to each other. The exception is a super-regenerative receiver which is a low cost way to build a receiver but you stated in an earlier post that the receivers are super-het and not super-regen.

Have you installed ( or have experience of ) a system installed in a house where there is also a wireless control system (such as X10) that uses the 433.xx MegHz frequency allocated to control systems

 

[JohnD]

(yes, the Yale siren is receive only, not transmit. the sensors are transmit only, not receive. Only the control panel, if you have one, receives from the sensors and transmits to the siren. If you have no control panel, the siren receives direct from the sensors)

When I had a siren-based Yale system, I set it to "pip" every time I set or unset it, as a confidence measure.

Now I have a Yale control-panel system, I watch the lights on the bottom of the siren flash once at the end of the count-down period when I leave the house. I can hear the panel counting down from outside the front door (the panel is out of sight upstairs).

No doubt some people are less particular.

 

[Alarm]

Watch your batts run down rapidly you mean

 

[yaleguy3]

Watch your batts run down rapidly you mean

usual productive post

Oh by the way my pro installed alarm is false alarming again.

 

[alumni]

More of your usual drivel.
no facts, no substance and no action on your part.

 

[Europlex]

Watch your batts run down rapidly you mean

usual productive post

Oh by the way my pro installed alarm is false alarming again.

Oh dear, pot, kettle & black really comes to mind now.

What's the other one, I know, practice what you preach.


Another thing, never said before but there has been one of YOUR ( Edit - Sorry, he does not understand, should be YALE, not YOUR)alarms near me for a number of years.

What a proverbial pain in the neck that has been. Complaint after to complaint to the local council by many of the residents got a new one fitted, you've guessed it, same make, different model.

What happened then you ask? Or not.

After a couple of months of exactly the same activations in the middle of the night and more complaints and the threat of prosecution, when they went on holiday, someone removed the box from the wall, smashed it up and fed it through the letter box.

The result, at last, a Pro system fitted, 18mths or so now, never been a problem.

And before you start pointing fingers, no, I had nothing to do with any part of this other than complaining along with many others.

 

[bernardgreen]

After a couple of months of exactly the same activations in the middle of the night and more complaints and the threat of prosecution, when they went on holiday, someone removed the box from the wall, smashed it up and fed it through the letter box.

Like it.

But maybe they could have removed the battery and waited to see how long it was before that was noticed by the owner. Then crushed it at the next false alarm. Oh of course the owner would have soon noticed there were no more false alarms and realised the battery was dead.