2-way lighting switches, on stairs

[JackStraw]

There is a join in the lights, its got 4 cables all 2 core plus an earth and 2 core hanging down.

2 white cables black = N, red = loop
white cable black = L, red = loose join
Grey cable brown = loop, blue = loose join.
The hanging cable brown = L, blue = N

 

[JackStraw]

There is a join in the lights, its got 4 cables all 2 core plus an earth and 2 core hanging down.

2 white cables black = N, red = loop
white cable black = L, red = loose join
Grey cable brown = loop, blue = loose join.
The hanging cable brown = L, blue = N

 

[SUNRAY]

Are you describing a ceiling rose?

 

[JackStraw]

The normal White junction box with a bulb holder hanging from it.

 

[SUNRAY]

Something like this?

 

[SUNRAY]

Is @SUNRAY some where close, there are two common methods to wire two way lights, as taught in school View attachment 186960 and more practical View attachment 186961 the school method often needs connector blocks in the switches, but neither seems to fit, so I am looking at a third methods View attachment 186962 if the final method is used, then the challenge is to work out what colours are used for com, in all three diagrams getting L1 and L2 swapped is not really a problem, as long as com is correct. I would has guessed that the red, black is not two way, so simple com and L1, and the red, yellow, blue is two way. However I would start by working out what wires a live feed in, so if I was doing it every wire would go into a block connector and then using a meter work out which is always live.

but for help from forum best option is pictures.

Jack said he can't do pictures so I'm guessing its this:

Which smacks of borrowed neutral.

I'm working on the description of the ceiling rose [if that's what he has] but I struggle with it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Not sure about the ceiling rose arrangement and obviously can't tell from here without testing but the available wires are just a normal set up where the hallway light is not two-way.

 

[JackStraw]

Thanks you for your help everone.

We really need to be able to switch both lights on from both ends so the latest idea won't work unless both lights could be come on together.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It wasn't a latest idea. It is the set up in most properties.

I was pointing out that the wires you have correspond to it so it looks like someone has been experimenting for some reason.



You need to determine if the Red/Black cables downstairs and upstairs operate their respective lights.

 

[JackStraw]

I taken the black from the downstairs switch and it stops the downstairs light, I get volts on the red when the upstairs fuse is turned on.

 

[JackStraw]

with the upstairs black out it stops the upstairs light and with the red out I only get volts on it with the downstairs fuse on.
does that help?

 

[JackStraw]

with both reds out no lights work at all.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Remove the Red/Blue/Yellow cable from both switches.
Connect the Red/Black cable to a switch - Com and L1 - downstairs and upstairs.

Do both lights only work on and off with the appropriate switch?

Do the fuses disconnect only the appropriate light?

 

[ericmark]

I think you really need to post drawings or pictures, what you want can be done, it may need some special switch like the kinetic, but it can be done, however everyone on here is struggling to work out what you have.

Clearly a two core and earth plus a three core and earth to each switch plate, but with a normal two way arrangement your missing a three core and earth to each switch plate.

The normal is first two way switch has 5 wires, two wires each into L2 and L3 (new switch numbers) and second two way switch has three wires. Clearly you don't have that, but I have noted some electricians use three core and earth to switches to allow future changes, the third wire could be used for a neutral or for two way switching, but this means more wires joined at the ceiling rose.

In the main a ceiling rose has four blocks of connectors, a clamp for the earth, 2 terminals to connect switched line to pendent, 3 terminals to connect permanent line to switch and next lamp, then 3 terminals to connect neutral to next lamp and pendent. However with two way switching as shown in my diagram you would have another wire in the ceiling rose, which connects the two coms (in new switch L1) together.

We are trying to progress step by step, and first step is to work out what you have,

I tried to work it out from your original description colouring wires and using your numbers, but once coms are connected, nothing lines up, specially the two yellows bottom left switch, which seems clearly wrong would never work if connected together, so what is wrong?

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm busy with something but also trying to follow, it's sounding strange and I think something to do with the rose wiring.