3ph to Single Phase

[securespark]

Didn't that go out with the 14th/ 15th Ed.?

 

[Notch7]

This is running away with itself a little it seems!

Think I agree that it will be fine to make up a lead, and it seems there's no hard and fast rule for which live to use, and given the loads we'll be putting through it I doubt it matters much.

Thanks all.

yup thats what it boils down to it

you could probably do it quicker than the time taken to read this thread

 

[crystal ball]

Didn't that go out with the 14th/ 15th Ed.?

I think it did, I remember going to great lengths to keep SP stuff on the same phase, then we got the ok from upstairs not to do it

 

[333rocky333]

With the proviso that the OP ensures that all of his single phases are the same phase, if they are to be in close proximity.

Is that necessary, would it be any more hazardous than a machine with Three phase in it or a 3 phase lead to a machine, go in any commercial kitchen and their single stuff s is balanced over 3 phases

 

[333rocky333]

This is running away with itself a little it seems!

Think I agree that it will be fine to make up a lead, and it seems there's no hard and fast rule for which live to use, and given the loads we'll be putting through it I doubt it matters much.

Thanks all.

Am I missing something , why use leads or adaptors.
Surely just fit the 5 pin plug on to the single phase lead of the machine

 

[funinacup]

Am I missing something , why use leads or adaptors.
Surely just fit the 5 pin plug on to the single phase lead of the machine

This is the best post in this thread, by a country mile! Why I didn't think of that I do not know, haha!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Is that necessary, would it be any more hazardous than a machine with Three phase in it or a 3 phase lead to a machine, go in any commercial kitchen and their single stuff s is balanced over 3 phases

Apparently not any longer, the Regulations changed. The difference between a 3Ph item and two 1Ph items is this.....

If the earth on a 3Ph item became faulty and a phase make contact with the metalwork, the metalwork will then be live and at a potential of 240v to earth. If two or three phase make contact, then the MCB will trip. Should two separate 1Ph items suffer that same fault and be adjacent to each other, then should you make contact with the metalwork of both items you would be across the much higher potential of 415v.

The likelihood is quite remote, but it can happen and the first possibility happened to me, some years ago. I walked into a flooded and dripping banking hall in the dark, already wet through from rain. A metal cased drier had a faulty earth and the casing was live. They had originally been installed with RCD's, with the one for this particular machine had been removed by an incompetent idiot, because they assumed that because it was tripping, the RCD was faulty. As a result, I was thrown by the 240v shock the length of the banking hall. I was lucky I was thrown, rather than being grabbed.

Now imagine a similar scenario but your making contact with the live bodies of two machines, on two different phases, 415v.

 

[plugwash]

You are essentially describing a quadruple-fault condition at that point, two separate* earth failures, plus two separate failures of basic insulation.

* If the two appliances cases were connected to the same failed earth feed then it would be the same as the three phase machine scenario.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You are essentially describing a quadruple-fault condition at that point, two separate* earth failures, plus two separate failures of basic insulation.

* If the two appliances cases were connected to the same failed earth feed then it would be the same as the three phase machine scenario.

That was a circumstance the Regulation makers originally had in mind, when they brought out that regulation. They obviously thought there was a sufficient risk back then. i must admit, I thought that regulation was still in force.

 

[SUNRAY]

Am I missing something , why use leads or adaptors.
Surely just fit the 5 pin plug on to the single phase lead of the machine

I thought I'd put that in my first post... oh well must try better

 

[JohnW2]

That was a circumstance the Regulation makers originally had in mind, when they brought out that regulation. They obviously thought there was a sufficient risk back then. i must admit, I thought that regulation was still in force.

I don't know about the regulatory situation (although I have seen lots of things written by people about it) but, as plugwash has said, any concerns appear to relate to such improbably situations of multiple simultaneous faults that they probably do not need to be considered by regs. More generally, if it was considered necessary to plan for such 'multiple fault' situations, that could lead to some pretty ridiculous regulations!

On the contrary, if there are multiple single-phase sockets derived from a 3-phase supply, I would be personally be tempted to suggest that the advantages of balancing the load across the phases would probably outweigh the 'perceived disadvantages' of having nearby sockets on different phases.

Similarly, I have always been a little worried by the "Danger - 415 [or 400] Volts" labels - which are/were 'required'. At least in relation to the unwary/uninformed, that almost implies that they do not need to take as much care if "only" 230 volts exists within an enclosure!

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

Found this by accident.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255030492147

probably the wrong red plug though

 

[SimonH2]

It should be exactly the right plug for the 16A outlet.

 

[AdrianUK]

It should be exactly the right plug for the 16A outlet.

True enough ....... unfortunately the OP has 32A sockets....

Hi all, just took over a 2nd unit at work which has 5x 32amp 3ph sockets on the back wall which will be our workshopl

That supplier has some rather..... interesting leads in his collection. One is a 32A 3P+N+E plug to 16A 3P+N+E in-line socket plus 16A 2P+E socket, without any inline protection. And the infamous 32A to 2 x 16A unfused splitter.

Now I know that some of us do have similar things in our "get-you-out-of-a-mess-under-carefully-supervised-conditions" box but I'm not sure I'd ever commercial sell one of these!

 

[SUNRAY]

True enough ....... unfortunately the OP has 32A sockets....



That supplier has some rather..... interesting leads in his collection. One is a 32A 3P+N+E plug to 16A 3P+N+E in-line socket plus 16A 2P+E socket, without any inline protection. And the infamous 32A to 2 x 16A unfused splitter.

Now I know that some of us do have similar things in our "get-you-out-of-a-mess-under-carefully-supervised-conditions" box but I'm not sure I'd ever commercial sell one of these!

Indeed I do have such adapter cables, including a 63A 3ph plug to 16A sp socket but nothing of that ilke ever goes out unless supervised by myself or a very trusted colleague, he socket will very likely be locked to its mated plug.