"A Society that believes in nothing?"

[zanwan]

People create all these fantasies around their beliefs

What makes me laugh is how different versions of the same religion have different views on the same subject
Its laughable and so misguided

Its so funny watching iron naz try to reconcile his own hypocritical opposing arguments that he resorts to made up childish excuses to explain himself.its really quite pathetic..and is prevalent in all religious types

Why are they so obssessed with willies any way

How are we obsessed with willies? You guys raised the issue.

Anyway my "childish" comments are tongue in cheek, i would have thought a cat with your high intelligence levels would have been able to figure this out?

 

[zanwan]

I take your point BigTone however, I would doubt that circumcision has any permanent detriment to a child in the long term, more important is that the child is then brought up in a loving home and family environment.
Looking at the bigger picture, I think there are far greater and more damaging forms of child abuse taking place in society that would concern me, one of the greatest being the total failure to bring up children with any respect for themselves and others....and thus turning out the 'monsters' that lurk around the streets today.

agree completely.

People do not circumsize boys as a form of child abuse. They do so because they feel it has benefits which have been backed by religious texts they follow. To compare circumcision to child abuse is very misleading and grossly offensive. Its comparable to saying stabbing a baby numerous times during its early years with a needle is child abuse. We do this to benefit the child, not for the sake of hurting it and making it cry.

It terms of raising children well in loving homes, agree completely. You will find the thousands of young thugs who rioted recently are those who have grown up in homes where the parents have pretty much failed to raise the children correctly. Evidence of this is the manner in which some parents behaved on their way too and from court, hurling insults and abuse at journalists. Some parents didnt even bother turning up to court.

Yet on the other hand, you had strong religious communities, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Christian etc whose children were, by and large, absent from the rioting. In fact quite the opposite, they stood guard around their communities to protect them from the violence and rioting the looters were engaged in. It is no coincidence that these were communities where religion plays a big role.

 

[joe-90]

This whole article is wrong. It should be titled:

"A society that doesn't believe in anything".


You can't believe in nothing because it doesn't exist.

 

[zanwan]

This whole article is wrong. It should be titled:

"A society that doesn't believe in anything".


You can't believe in nothing because it doesn't exist.

i dont know, there IS a neon sign called Nothing, so you could always believe in that?

 

[Big Tone]

I take your point BigTone however, I would doubt that circumcision has any permanent detriment to a child in the long term, more important is that the child is then brought up in a loving home and family environment.
Looking at the bigger picture, I think there are far greater and more damaging forms of child abuse taking place in society that would concern me, one of the greatest being the total failure to bring up children with any respect for themselves and others....and thus turning out the 'monsters' that lurk around the streets today.

I don’t disagree with the monsters created as a direct result of bad parenting but I vehemently disagree with circumcision being a trivial matter that does no harm in the short or long term. That is factually incorrect! But most of all, as I have said: -

God/Nature put it there for good reason. (Still no logical rebuttal to that)
Other male mammals have it
It protects the gland
It’s a cruel and sadistic practice, as my link showed.
It sometimes ends in the penis being terminalised
Sometimes the child dies from complications.
The skin can rip during intercourse or a ‘five knuckle shuffle’

I could go on and was about to say I can’t believe the ignorant, primitive justifications for it, but then I’ve heard them all before. At some point I have to jump off the circular argument and I’m bored with repeating myself. Your replies, at times Naz, have bordered on Trolling or just taking the p*ss and I am not entertaining you any more. Let’s just leave it at us both being equally grossly offended...

]

 

[Space cat]

Why are they so obssessed with willies any way

Well I don't know much about Buddhists or Hindus, except that Hindus wrote the Karma Sutra and invented (or should I say discovered) tantra, but the major monotheistic religions are all obsessed with sex - and the more fanatical the proponents, the more obsessed they are.

But here's the paradox. They all claim to be in favour of strong families - and there's nothing wrong with that - so, given that we humans use sex for pair-bonding, you would think that they would encourage us to be good lovers and thus strengthen the bond. Far from it! The general message is that sex is purely for reproduction and anything else is a sin.

Why should this be? Well here's a clue: Atheistic tyrants like Stalin and Mao were exactly the same. I don't buy the late Alex Comfort's theory about dictators being worried that sexual freedom would lead to demands for freedoms elsewhere. For a start it flies right in the face of the bread and circuses principle which the more successful ones have used to good effect. Why would you want to ban the ultimate free circus? The answer must go deeper than that, probably back to our non pair-forming ancestors where a dominant male claimed exclusive mating rights. Whatever the explanation, it would seem that religion was corrupted by politics right from the start.

 

[zanwan]

Why are they so obssessed with willies any way

But here's the paradox. They all claim to be in favour of strong families - and there's nothing wrong with that - so, given that we humans use sex for pair-bonding, you would think that they would encourage us to be good lovers and thus strengthen the bond. Far from it! The general message is that sex is purely for reproduction and anything else is a sin.

Since where does Islam state sex is for reproduction only? Islam clearly states sex is not just for reproduction but for pleasure also. Islam promotes contraception. In fact did you know a man OR a muslim woman can use lack of sexual satisfaction as grounds for divorce?

I cant speak for other faiths, but Islam has no issues with sex and sex is certainly not seen as taboo.

However that said, that doesnt mean we promote loose sexual morals, or talk about sex in a shameless indecent manner. Morality, respect, honour are all very important to Muslims and we will not compromise on this.

 

[joe-90]

What about that crowd up north grooming dopey white girls for sex. They were Muslim were they not?

 

[zanwan]

What about that crowd up north grooming dopey white girls for sex. They were Muslim were they not?

They may be Muslim by name but their behaviour is far from that of a true Muslim. In an Islamic society, they would have suffered serious consequences. But this is an extreme minority, as in 0.00000001% of Muslim youth in this country. Yet that type of behaviour is more commen from white youths, but its not made an issue out off. Its just accepted as horny guys getting it on with easy girls.

 

[joe-90]

Muslims can do no wrong in your eyes - it's always distorted reporting to blame.

 

[zanwan]

Muslims can do no wrong in your eyes - it's always distorted reporting to blame.

i've just said some are engaged in this dispicable behaviour! stop selective reading please

i also stated this is very rare and a very small minority who do this and yes the media do make the issue seem to be a bigger problem then it really is, espeically the media on the right.

 

[Susiejb]

IronNaz as I said I totally respect your opinion and religious views. I know this discussion is at an end and I do not want to prolong it......however because I always like to make an informed decision I have just read the following article which I think is interesting and sensible and I can see where the objections come from:

http://www.historyofcircumcision.ne...ent&task=category&sectionid=5&id=70&Itemid=48

Sorry I am no good at posting links

 

[Big Tone]

Maybe a survey will help Just to get some scale of the situation like they do on weekend programs.

 

[Space cat]

Since where does Islam state sex is for reproduction only? Islam clearly states sex is not just for reproduction but for pleasure also. Islam promotes contraception. In fact did you know a man OR a muslim woman can use lack of sexual satisfaction as grounds for divorce?

Oops, 0ops and thrice oops! That's me telt.

I must've picked up some duff information from somewhere so, in the interests of my further education, are Muslims encouraged to learn how to use ALL of their sexual equipment?

 

[RedHerring2]

Well I don't know much about Buddhists or Hindus, except that Hindus wrote the Karma Sutra and invented (or should I say discovered) tantra, but the major monotheistic religions are all obsessed with sex - and the more fanatical the proponents, the more obsessed they are.

Just for clarification, Buddhism is not monotheistic.