All that extra time getting your passport stamped…..

[T&G]

nonsense

I see. That is an excellent explanation. I am stumped for a reasonable response, except that I just made one.

If it were legally possible, the whole of the boating fraternity would know about it and it would be a wide scale avoidance of VAT.
It is not legally possible. I suspect the whole of the boating fraternity are aware of the illegal methods, which I prefer not to expand on here.

 

[motorbiking]

You claimed expertise. I suspect its limited to knowing which side is port and which end is the bow.

 

[T&G]

This is very sad. I was expecting a reasonable discussion, based on reality, experience and knowledge.
I am sad because your responses are not what I expected.
Was it my over-expectation, or your under achieving?

To be clear, the Temporary Importation in EU ports would apply to vessels with a VAT paid status, provable by reference to their sale invoice.
After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required.
Any vessel with an unpaid VAT status would be assumed to being imported for an indefinite period, and VAT would be applied.

But if a boat was registered in UK, VAT would be applicable on the sale. If it was VAT free for export, it wouldn't have a UK registration. Time limits for its export would apply, and if it returned to UK, at any time and for any period, VAT would become applicable.

Now can we have a sensible discussion?

 

[motorbiking]

To be clear, the Temporary Importation in EU ports would apply to vessels with a VAT paid status, provable by reference to their sale invoice.
After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required.
Any vessel with an unpaid VAT status would be assumed to being imported for an indefinite period, and VAT would be applied.

But if a boat was registered in UK, VAT would be applicable on the sale. If it was VAT free for export, it wouldn't have a UK registration. Time limits for its export would apply, and if it returned to UK, at any time and for any period, VAT would become applicable.

Are you asking or telling?

 

[ellal]

"EU entry-exit system would have been ‘complete and utter carnage’, says Dover council leader"

"Ministers have decided to postpone the introduction of the EES indefinitely"

“None of the infrastructure is ready. None of the IT is ready.
It would have been complete and utter carnage. We are more than happy there has been a delay.
Without EES we still see the town coming to a gridlock several times a year.
You add this on to it, it’s a gridlock on steroids – and that’s what concerns us"

“If the Department for Transport are still saying they expect up to 14-hour delays, there’s a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed.
In Dover, it’s not just the A20 – the whole town stops. Nothing moves. You see ambulances stuck in queues.
Everywhere suffers, and if we don’t get this right it will backlog. And then it backs up into the rest of Kent.

“I can’t over-exagerrate the damage it does business-wise, to the community, to individuals, to the security of the country because staff can’t even get into work to secure the borders. That’s our problem.”


But hey, that's what brexiteers voted for!

 

[T&G]

Are you asking or telling?

If I was asking I would end the sentence with a question mark.
Tell me what you disagree with of what I have said so far. You claimed it was nonsense, and skipped about avoiding any real issues.
Tell us how how you claim to be avoiding VAT and I will tell you where you are talking nonsense, or I will agree your claims are accurate.
Tell us about this Brexit bonus you claim to have discovered.

 

[noseall]

I might get the popcorn ready...

 

[motorbiking]

T&G apparently lives in Holland, so none of this applies to him anyway. unless he wants to buy a boat VAT free and keep it in the UK.

To be clear, the Temporary Importation in EU ports would apply to vessels with a VAT paid status, provable by reference to their sale invoice.
After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required.
Any vessel with an unpaid VAT status would be assumed to being imported for an indefinite period, and VAT would be applied.

But if a boat was registered in UK, VAT would be applicable on the sale. If it was VAT free for export, it wouldn't have a UK registration. Time limits for its export would apply, and if it returned to UK, at any time and for any period, VAT would become applicable.

I've highlighted the bits that are not entirely incorrect.

The rest is entirely incorrect.

A transit log, marina berthing receipt, even a fuel receipt are all sufficient to prove you have left the EU.
yes if you bring it back say after 10 years you will pay VAT on its used value, no doubt assisted by a friendly marine surveyor or yacht broker who will tell you its trade in price or you sell it VAT Not Paid.

 

[Mottie]

.

But hey, that's what…

….gives you a hard on?

 

[ellal]

.

….gives you a hard on?

You're the proven chief w*nker here

Any luck with coming up with a 'brexit bonus' yet?

Because even a breakfast wino like you can't be pleased with this...

"Many wine drinkers face paying more for their favourite tipple from February, as part of changes brought in after the UK left the European Union.

Experts and industry leaders have also warned the Tory reforms to booze levies could see some of Britain’s favourite bottles disappear from the shelves"

"A new campaign poster being sent to customers and displayed in shops warns that the new Labour government “has inherited a highly controversial alcohol duty system which is due to be implemented on 1st February 2025…. This change will not only increase costs and complexity for wine retailers, but could result in your favourite wine having to rise in price or potentially being removed from our ranges entirely.”

 

[Mottie]

Many wine drinkers face paying more for their favourite tipple from February, as part of changes brought in after the UK left the European Union.

Luckily, the remnants of my furlough bonus will keep me in fine breakfast wine for years to come. Cheers.

Any luck with coming up with the real reason why you are still here after saying you were leaving? (The country and this forum)

 

[carmanmemoranda]

.

 

[T&G]

I am not sure if you are being intentionally obtuse.

To be clear, the Temporary Importation in EU ports would apply to vessels with a VAT paid status, provable by reference to their sale invoice.
After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required.
Any vessel with an unpaid VAT status would be assumed to being imported for an indefinite period, and VAT would be applied.

But if a boat was registered in UK, VAT would be applicable on the sale. If it was VAT free for export, it wouldn't have a UK registration. Time limits for its export would apply, and if it returned to UK, at any time and for any period, VAT would become applicable.

Now can we have a sensible discussion?

T&G apparently lives in Holland, so none of this applies to him anyway. unless he wants to buy a boat VAT free and keep it in the UK.

The EU rules apply to all of the EU. Although individual states might have their own interpretation of those rules.

I've highlighted the bits that are not entirely incorrect.

You said that it is not entirely correct that a boat must leave EU waters, and be able to prove it, before re-entering. Then you go on to say exactly the same that I said.
My comment:
After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required.
Your comment:
A transit log, marina berthing receipt, even a fuel receipt are all sufficient to prove you have left the EU.
See the similarity?
I would make another relevant comment:
It is not the obligation of the member state to prove that the boat did not exit EU waters. The onus is on the boat skipper/owner to prove that it had left EU waters. Thus one piece of evidence may not be sufficient. The EU customs can ask for sufficient evidence until they are convinced.
The regulations do not stipulate the amount of time the boat should remain outside of EU waters. But 5, 30 minutes, an hour or so would be seen as a **** take.
A minimum 24 hour period would be a safe assumption to work with.

yes if you bring it back say after 10 years you will pay VAT on its used value, no doubt assisted by a friendly marine surveyor or yacht broker who will tell you its trade in price or you sell it VAT Not Paid.

My understanding is the three year rule. If the boat is outside of UK for more than 3 years, you will have pay VAT/Customs Duty again when it returns to UK.
VAT is applied to an event, not to a boat. Thus a sale is an event, which incurs VAT. After an event the invoice will illustrate whether the appropriate VAT was applied, and the boat would be considered as a VAT paid status.

The rest is entirely incorrect.

This is too vague and too general. it is no better than your previous "nonsense" responses.

Let us start from your starting point, then we can follow your process logically:
You say that you buy a boat VAT free in the UK. Assuming you are a UK citizen, as a private individual, it is not (legally) possible to buy a boat VAT free. Only foreign citizens can enjoy that privilege, and the boat must be intended for export, and must be exported (or sailed away) within a definite time frame.
If you are a VAT registered business, in UK, you must pay the VAT and reclaim it against your business. The boat is then owned by the business, and used by the business. That can be for the use of the directors, etc.

So are you buying the boat as a private UK citizen? Or as a foreign citizen, for export? Or as a UK VAT registered company, for company use?

 

[motorbiking]

"After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required."
The correct Answer is within 18 months. If you wait until after 18 months you have a problem.

"if it returned to UK, at any time and for any period, VAT would become applicable."

VAT is not based on the purchase price, but the current value. Also it can be sold VAT not paid. it is also not correct that an exported vessel must pay VAT if it is returned for any period. If I sell my exported vessel VAT not paid to an eligible buyer, he has 6 months to export it.

Hence, why I said these parts were not entirely incorrect.

The EU rules apply to all of the EU. Although individual states might have their own interpretation of those rules

and they are not applicable to those living in the EU.

Let us start from your starting point, then we can follow your process logically

Nope - you're not eligible because you state that you live in Holland. So it's a pointless academic exercise where I share high value info to someone that isn't even able to use it. Phone a broker and ask them if you want to import a boat VAT free to the UK. I'm sure they will help you.

 

[T&G]

"After 18 months (or 2 years if it applies) the boat must be taken out of EU waters, and proof will be required."
The correct Answer is within 18 months. If you wait until after 18 months you have a problem.

Yes of course. It was my clumsy paraphrasing of the rules.

"if it returned to UK, at any time and for any period, VAT would become applicable."

VAT is not based on the purchase price, but the current value.

Of course. I made no mention of the price on which VAT is based. So you are introducing a strawman argument.
I have already clarified that if it returns after 3 years, VAT becomes payable (on the current value, and the HMRC are well aware of intentional under-valuations).

Also it can be sold VAT not paid. it is also not correct that an exported vessel must pay VAT if it is returned for any period. If I sell my exported vessel VAT not paid to an eligible buyer, he has 6 months to export it.

Are we talking about a UK registered boat? Sold by a private individual without VAT registration?

If the seller is a VAT registered trader (and he would have to be, to have reclaimed the original VAT paid on the purchase) and he will charge VAT on top of the agreed price. It could be a boat in relation to the seller's business. If It is advertised without VAT, it is because it could be sold to another VAT registered trader who can reclaim the VAT or be exported.

In a rare circumstance where a non VAT paid boat is in the UK legally, for example one owned by a foreign citizen and here under temporary import rules, or held in bond under the HMRC scheme operating in conjunction with some brokers, then it might be possible to sell it VAT free, for re-export.

If a boat is to exported, and it would include your boat if it was VAT free for export, then VAT would become payable when it arrives at its destination.

Hence, why I said these parts were not entirely incorrect.

But you have not clarified them correctly. Nor have you explained under which condition you claim to have purchased a boat VAT free.

and they are not applicable to those living in the EU.

We are discussing your claim to have purchased a boat VAT free.
If you are an EU resident, then your comment is relevant. if you are a UK resident, your comment is irrelevant.

Nope - you're not eligible because you state that you live in Holland. So it's a pointless academic exercise

I am not intending to purchase a boat in the UK, nor attempting to do it VAT free. So stop dancing about avoiding the relevant issues, with multiple strawman arguments.

where I share high value info to someone that isn't even able to use it. Phone a broker and ask them if you want to import a boat VAT free to the UK. I'm sure they will help you.

I have no intention of 'using yoiur high value information'. My only interest is in your claim that you have discovered a Brexit bonus, and I am trying to validate your claim.
But you are being extremely obtuse on providing any information on which your claim can be validated.
So I think I can confidently say that your Brexit Bonus is a figment of your information, and yet another case of you relying on the laziness of the average reader to not verify your interpretation of such issues.

Let us try approaching the issue from the other end of your boat's journey.
If you are using a trip to Turkey to spend some time out of EU waters, am I correct in assuming that you operate a charter business from a Greek port?