Amber Rudd

[JohnD]

The architects of the EU?
after all, the whole point of its formation was to make people European first and foremost, and remove their national status.

The men who created the European Community had just lived through the worst war the world has ever seen. The older ones had also lived through the second-worst war the world has ever seen. Nothing was more important to them than preventing a recurrence, and they believed that bringing the nations together could achieve that.

You already know that. Your pig-headed denial of the truth does you no credit.

 

[ellal]

If they think it, they certainly don't share it - to me anyway.

And therein lies the rub!

None of us (ordinary folk) should become the 'thought police'...

We should rely on our instincts!

One thing however is cast in stone - politicians are consumate liars!

 

[Brigadier]

The men who created the European Community had just lived through the worst war the world has ever seen. The older ones had also lived through the second-worst war the world has ever seen. Nothing was more important to them than preventing a recurrence, and they believed that bringing the nations together could achieve that.

You already know that. Your pig-headed denial of the truth does you no credit.

Nor does yours.

 

[ellal]

Nor does yours.

Explain please.

 

[JohnD]

brig is pretending that hundreds of evil aliens got together in a cavern to plot what they could do to make the world a worse place, and decided that a European Community was the best way.

he is pretending that it is true and that I know it and am wilfully denying it.

He is entirely wrong.

 

[SirGalahad]

TM policy as HO minister and continued by subsequent ministers was simply a dog whistle to appease the rising influence of UKIP and the hard right of the tory party. It was effective in dismantling UKIP but at what cost to the tory party?

Using policy tools and environment that is targeted at being hostile to illegal immigrants has failure baked in because unless you can clearly identify illegal immigrants and by definition you cannot then the effects would fall on those who were here legally but lacked evidence.

 

[motorbiking]

To compare what was created then with what exists today is ludicrous.

 

[sodthisforfun]

And therein lies the rub!

None of us (ordinary folk) should become the 'thought police'...

We should rely on our instincts!

One thing however is cast in stone - politicians are consumate liars!

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say in all your post?

I agree with the last bit - politicians are liars and greedy. I believe that some start with good intentions but soon change.

 

[JohnD]

Brigadier and I are both describing the objectives of the people who founded the European Community.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Brigadier and I are both describing the objectives of the people who founded the European Community.

Thanks, I got that bit - it was Ellal's post I was wondering about.

 

[ellal]

Not entirely sure what you're trying to say in all your post?

That it's important we don't turn against ourselves in deference to the latest (ever changing) decrees of 'authority'!

 

[JohnD]

I was helping motorbiking

To compare what was created then with what exists today is ludicrous.

 

[Notch7]

don't know anyone who hates foreigners

According to a certain group on this forum, the following people all hate foreigners:

Every single person that voted leave.
Every single person that dares to mention they have concerns about immigration
Anybody that is not a devout follower of 'the chosen one'

 

[Bodd]

According to a certain group on this forum, the following people all hate foreigners:

Every single person that voted leave.
Every single person that dares to mention they have concerns about immigration
Anybody that is not a devout follower of 'the chosen one'

THAts me then

 

[SirGalahad]

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history/1945-1959_en

The aims were laudable - peace and prosperity through co-operation. It's why countries still are entering into trade deals.

For those who like reading - is there a link between FTA and peace.

https://www.princeton.edu/~pcglobal/conferences/wartrade/Martin_Mayer_Thoenig_Paper.pdf

We analyze the interaction of economic and political determinants of free trade agreements (FTA). In addition to standard trade gains, FTAs can promote peaceful relations by offering a political forum and by increasing the opportunity cost of conflicts that disrupt trade. If policy makers believe in such pacifying effects of FTAs, country-pairs with large trade gains from FTAs and high probability of conflict are more likely to sign a FTA. Using data on the 1950-2000 period, we show that this complementarity between economic and political gains is at work in the geography of FTAs. Country pairs characterized by a high frequency of old wars - which we use as a proxy of the probability of conflict - are shown to be more likely to sign FTAs, the more so the higher the trade gains from a FTA. These trade gains are estimated by a theory-driven empirical strategy to disentangle them from the political factors. We also show that, contrary to old wars, recent wars make it more difficult to negotiate a FTA. This suggests the existence of windows of opportunity to lock-in FTAs and peace. Finally multilateral trade openness, because it reduces the opportunity cost of a bilateral conflict, increases the political incentive to sign FTAs