Blown render!! Please Help!

[Freddie]

pva is glue

 

[jbonding]

Wood doesnt split when wet it's the drying process which does that---the pva glue fails when it gets damp--the wall i refer too was taken off as a precaution due to extreme frost--no render failiure it was only a plinth of 3 blocks high.

When skimming there is minimal water in skim so the underlying wall can only get damp which as dj i think it was explained and it controls the sucktion of the skim to prevent it drying on the interior wall.

An exterior wall has to be hosed down before work starts and there could be gallons of water in the render----many many many many more times the amount of water used in interior skimming of walls thus what chance would pva/unibond have in outside conditions--plus also the moisture content of interior masonary would be around 6% exterior walls would be in the region of 25% plus---all this is self explanitary to the dumbest of people so i cant understand jbonding why you cant quite grasp it.

Also can you tell me when you do any plastering as you always seem to be on here and must be yhe only plasterer with a laptop instead of a spot

why is there a reference to rendering on the side of the pva?
what does the reference say?
do you think they put it on just to fill in the spaces?
will waterproofer waterproof your wall?
how does the water get out after its passed the waterproofer?
whats the problem mixing scratch coat and top coat the same?
im the boss so i work out the hours

I just found a tin of Durabond pva sealer/adhesive i have--and it DOES mention concrete--floor screeds --and sand cement render------It DOES NOT say anywhere on the tin about using it in EXTERIOR OR CONTINUALLY DAMP CONDITIONS. and render or hardwall sand/cement is used extensively on interior walls. and after using this stuff for many years and seeing problems with people trying to use it in such places i would challenge anybody to say it will stick tons of render or help in any way to stick tons of render in an exterior or continually damp situation.

As regards waterproofer i again would like you to answer my previous question which i will again ask----you say no waterproofer in finish coats only in scratch coat because of the chance of frost blowing in the situation you describe---my question the same rule would apply to your scratch coat if water got behind that onto the wall thus blowing the lot off so surely as many coats of render on the wall they should have waterproofer in to lesson any chance of water penertration---so how can you say only scratch coat?

Waterproofer doesnt waterproof the wall but allows the penertration of onlly a few millimeters, it doesnt allow full penertration on to the actual wall.--as i said before many times your exterior wall is very damp--one reason why you have a wall cavity and your interior wall very dry--your exterior wall will be roughly the same moisture content of the surrounding air---NOT SUITABLE FOR PVA GLUES one reason why you wouldnt use them on garden furniture and other outside things.

Once moisture or water has penertrated into the wall finish or even brickwork in a brickwork situ the wall would gradually dry with the surrounding conditions which is WHY you always have a wall cavity and houses without are always damper.

where does it refer to indoor use only?
you dont get it ive never said it will stick tons of render the key ie raking out or eml, the pva can be used to seal the dust and control suction.a waterproofer in your scratch coat and none in your top coat or a waterproofer in both coats, lets compare the two. its p******g down for days against a rendered wall. severe rain will soak through the top coat on either one. no water proofer in the top coat will soak in water and dry OUT, like you say it might reach the scratch coat but driving rain wont. waterproofer in the top coat is under severe rain condition the water will pass through but cannot readily pass OUT so were does it go? Quote freddie "Once moisture or water has penertrated into the wall finish or even brickwork in a brickwork situ the wall would gradually dry with the surrounding conditions which is WHY you always have a wall cavity and houses without are always damper.[/quote does that includ FREEZING conditions.

It does say Durabond performs best in dry conditions, but like i say with my experience of pva i challenge any manufacturer to say it will work outside and not be affected by wet or damp, and to prove my point i have emailed them this evening just for you.

I see your point on waterproofer and top coat and that makes sense but for 2 reasons----Even with driving rain the water cannot penertrate to the scratch coat and i should know ( situ ) and also if there was any crack in the scratch coat ( and there always is-- plenty of them ) then the water in your discription can get through to the blocks and your deep freeze will blow the render in the way you discribe------so basically your argument is self defeating especially as render should be painted as further protection against any mishaps such as cracks.

is that dry conditions outside i cant see them meaning dry conditions inside unless your working without the roof. it will be interesting to hear what they say, and i hope you never asked them if it will be effected by wet or damp because it says that on the tub. "Even with driving rain the water cannot penertrate to the scratch coat and i should know ( situ ) " meaning what, how should you know? and what has situ got to do with it.
"and also if there was any crack in the scratch coat ( and there always is-- plenty of them ) is there now, whys that? this is why you need to learn why you mix your scratch coat stronger than your top coat. when scratching your scratch coat make sure you do not scratch back to the background or you will bridge the waterproofer. I cannot believe after all your bullshit that your gonna recommend people paint it to hide any further mishaps such as cracking. since when has masonry paint stopped render cracking. your starting to back step.

 

[Freddie]

pva is glue

 

[jbonding]

Situ--- means where i live on the wet windy west coast of Ireland 1 mile from the see behind a mountain that makes the clouds deposit 2000mm plus rain per year.

Cracks meaning that render is full of hairline cracks do to drying out--true they may not be full depth but also any crack in the blockwork or mortar joint will show through any amount of coats of render after 12 months even if covered with expanded metal before rendering----settlement for up to 20 years it is said that a house will settle and this causes small cracks in render--etc etc etc.

Infact the process here is to not paint for the first few years and let any cracks appear then fill with ? and then paint.

99% of houses here are 4" block built and two coat rendered and you have never seen wind or rain like it unless you live here.

My personal view is you cant beat a wooden house, then you dont have these problems

where abouts in ireland are you?
i've said in extreme conditions ie by the sea a waterproofer in the top coat is sound. render is meant too breath ie take in water and dry out. waterproofer in the scratch coat will stop MOISTURE entering the brickwork and even out the suction in the top coat.in your top coat aim to make it weak and porous, so that the contraction that occurs during setting and drying out will not encourage cracking, strong mortars rich with cement cause cracking and lime is added to the top coat to reduce cracking and strengthen the mix, lime doesn't actually set so is flexible and will move with any movement but not cracking cannot be guaranteed due to extreme settlement. painting rendered houses is common but only too hide stuff and cause even more problems, why does most rendering need painting every few years and what happens when water gets behind this and if you've got a waterproofer in your top coat how does the paint stick?

 

[jbonding]

Am I missing something here J bonding : You state rendering and plastering with your sealobond and as you yourself state " follow with a bonding coat and apply render or plaster"............Now Pleeeeease dont tell me that you can use bonding and plaster outside!!!
I can only assume that when you read references to render you are under the impression that this is a referal to external applications only, has it occured to you that a render coat also applies to internal work, hence the references on tubs of pva are indded intended as a guide for render "floating" as in float and set.
I have just dug out another tub of pva made by evostik and following the usual gumph the detail ends in EVOBOND IS NOT SUITABLE FOR EXTERNAL SOLUTIONS So that is two tubs of pva both stateing what everyone else has allready told you, surely its time to be humble enough to admit you have got it wrong.
All the info you have on your pva I have on mine but again theese refer to internal applications as the simple paragraph of "DO NOT USE EXTERNALLY is clear concise and all encompassing.

You say you are asking me for its uses ? Do you mean pva and what I use it for?

You want solid proof about external waterproofer. I think I have convinced every man and his dog beyond repute by quoting the Irish guidance document, the fact that I as an experienced plasterer am familiar with the methods employed in rendering externally, dealing with engineers that insist on checking that renders are correct and adhereing to specifications given to me to work to, as well as stateing the instructions from the product of a multi billion turnover manufacturer of waterproofer, well if that aint proof enough just exactly what do you want.

the bonding coat refers to 3-1 as you will see at the bottom of the page. if youve ever reskimmed a wall you will notice similar advise is given as regards reskimming walls. i am aware rendering is done internally and the referal wasnt specifically for internal so you can assume the term render means internal and external.are you sure it never said dont use in wet or damp conditions, and you just assumed externally.im asking for its uses, ill say it again what are its uses.if i asked you the uses of a sweeping brush and shovel it doesnt mean what do you use it for, bad example, im probably confusing you now.

 

[jbonding]

hey do you know the mad thing, and its great to see, youve just said you lived in ireland and i didnt know this, i know legs is in ireland im not sure if he was born there, or you were born there come to think of it. i assume of some of your posts (legs) you moved over there 10 years ago, probably dragged there by some lovely irish woman. its good how you can always rely on the irish sticking together

 

[Freddie]

pva is glue

 

[dougalhouse]

I take offence to your remarks about the irish bloodline being inferior as i myself have irish blood 1 : 1 english / irish (no PVA or waterproofer)

With regard to your remark about escaping the muslim enclave we live in, how do you think your neighbours feel about the english living over there in the beautiful west coast of Eire Especially when you know a little bit of the history of how we treated the Irish under that c**t Cromwell!

 

[Freddie]

pva is glue

 

[legs-akimbo]

Who was this Oliver Cromwell Fellow....Did he have a plastering gang that went around Ireland mixing up sharp sand with pva and then painting it onto walls before rendering them. The plaster fell off, people died of exposure, cholera, malnutrition and hypothermia.....The rotten cowboy Bast**d, Hey was he an ancestor of yours J bonding.

Anyway I have had enough of this :

I am wrong
Freddie is wrong
World renown multi national companies are wrong
Good working practice guides are wrong
70,000 New builds per annum are wrong


However a self proclaimed plasaterer who spends his days on this forum as opposed to errrrr.....well .....plastering . He is right, No proof offered whatsoever, just his theories, and nonsensical bumbling rantings.

Just one small point , If waterproof renders let water in (as they do to an extent, dont you also understand that they let it out again also you stupid stupid moron.

Never argue with an idiot they simply bring you down to their level and win by experience.

 

[dougalhouse]

Say hello to my cousins in Co Mayo!

 

[Freddie]

pva is glue

 

[Freddie]

pva is glue

 

[jbonding]

One thing i aint b****y Irish my blood line is far superior to that. I moved here to escape the muslim enclave you live in

As regards painting houses to hide things--well nearly every rendered house i have ever seen anywhere in any country is painted so am i missing something???

i new you were a thick orange prick, you never said your blood line, so what are you. A chancer who jumped on the boat to ireland because every renderering job has done come to haunt you.where abouts in ireland are you? i noticed you informed most of the english you **** house, i bet you wouldnt stand up in a pub in dublin and express the same view."but then again the only ones who keep bringing that stuff up are misguided IRA supporters" i take it you live in a predomintly orange area. maybe the land was taken from them, one of the reasons they left. Ive gave you and thick orange mate plenty of reasons for water in the scratch coat and the uses of pva, youve come up with **** all appart from abuse.

 

[jbonding]

Just found a used tub of Larsens pva bond and it says in bold letters on the usage---donot use in areas of permanent damp or wetness.

I dont think there is anymore to say jbonding except that you are completely wrong and are a bit of a cowboy when it comes to knowing how to render outside walls, perhaps you should stick to tarmacing drives.

have you now, you thick orange prick, weve already gone through this bit "do not use in areas of permanent damp or wetness." stop grasping for straws. you didnt find out if dry conditions meant inside or out .