Carry on Lab Rats...

[JohnD]

When an unvaccinated person catches CV19, the effects can be very long term, and become apparent in about a month.

 

[IT Minion]

It doesn't matter.

I am arguing with those who think long term effects can be determined in the short term.

An English semantic exercise rather than a medical one.

Long term effects can kick in at any point but last years or decades. Long Covid appears quite quickly but takes a long time to go away. That's fairly typical for long term effects for any condition.

What you keep banging on about are delayed onset effects. Things that occur along time after an injection. Its a big difference, not just semantics.

The reason it's important is that long term effects are a real thing and are normally identified quite quickly, they just don't go away. Long delayed (more than 3 months) onset effects for vaccines aren't common.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ok. I apologise if the medical fraternity uses different 'terms'.

However, I have never heard the term 'delayed onset effects' so I think most people will think long term effects means the same as I mean; i.e. effects that might appear a long term after the vaccine.

 

[Brigade77]

The great return to skool is fast approaching & I took the DiL to one side today & asked her the forbidden question . . .

"Are you going to allow them to be vaccinated"?

I'm not anti-vax per-se. I care not one jot if you are or you are not. It is non of my business what you do with your body & please afford me the dignity of choosing what I do with my body. They are my grandchildren & I am well aware of the extent that my opinion matters in their lives.

I raised my son well, he makes few wrong decisions & he brought to me a daughter that I am proud of.

"Over my cold dead body", and with that she returned to preparing the food.

 

[IT Minion]

Ok. I apologise if the medical fraternity uses different 'terms'.

However, I have never heard the term 'delayed onset effects' so I think most people will think long term effects means the same as I mean; i.e. effects that might appear a long term after the vaccine.

Of course you haven't heard it used, delayed onset effects are very unusual and have only ever been seen within a few months of vaccination.

Think of the blood clotting issue with AZ, it isn't a long term effect, the excessive clotting only happens for a short while. It can have a delay of a couple of weeks between vaccination and it causing the clotting, and if it causes a stroke the stroke can cause long term effects. But those effects are immediately visible from the stroke occuring. Those are real adverse reactions/effects.

What you keep saying you're concerned by is a condition that takes an infinite time to take effect but is very severe. An evil unicorn might be the best technical term for that.

 

[noseall]

effects that might appear a long term after the vaccine.

Which history suggests is largely zero.

 

[Lower]

'cock and bull story'?

I realise a coward such as yourself wouldn't have the balls to even contemplate standing up for yourself and others...

Thus it is no surprise that you also don't have the balls to question what is being pumped into your aged body...

But hey, I hope you (and some others here) enjoy your bend over moment and accept whatever you are given ...

It'll of course become routine!

Our son's child minder was anti vax. Then she got covid, was pretty ill for three weeks, recovered from covid but ended up in a mental health unit with severe depression. She's never suffered from depression before, but spent 6 weeks in the mental health unit with a number of other patients also suffering from depression resulting from a covid infection.

She's now back at work, and she bitterly regrets not having the vaccine. She said she felt so bad from covid she thought she was going to die, and the 6 weeks in the mental health unit were the most unpleasant weeks of her life. Not just from her own depression, but from seeing the state of others in the unit.

You say you don't know what's in the vaccine, but you don't know any more about what's in most of what you put in your body, ie food, drink, vitamins, other medicines etc. I bet you had you children vaccinated against German Measles, amongst other vaccines. I bet you don't know what was in that either.

You don't know what covid will do to you, just like you don't know what's in teh vaccine, but you seem prepared to take your chances. That entirely your choice, but promoting your antivax views is cowardly and dangerous to others. Are you prepared to take responsibility when someone listen to your misinformation on the vaccines, chooses not be vaccinated and gets seriously ill or dies?

I suspect you'll decline all responsibility.

 

[Mottie]

Thus it is no surprise that you also don't have the balls to question what is being pumped into your aged body...

Hey, I’ve just had a thought. Perhaps you can ask those two 'doctor' sons of yours what has been pumped into our aged bodies (AstraZeneca jab for me, Pfizer for Mrs Mottie) and then perhaps you could make a decision for yourself. If it’s anything nasty, please come straight back, tell us all what it is and give us a warning. We'll look forward to your help for all on the forum.

Surprisingly (or maybe not) I’m still waiting for an answer. Perhaps the good 'doctors' are still on their rounds…..

 

[JP_]

coward

lol, how can you call somebody a coward, who in your opinion, is taking a risk for the greater good?

But, as I said before, it really is getting boring with you calling people, who have vaccines, cowards and sheeple. Grow up man. Accept that not everybody has minority opinions, stop calling everybody around stupid sheeple cowards just because we trust medicine.

 

[JP_]

but promoting your antivax views is cowardly and dangerous to others

Too right.

Anti vaxxers arguement is no more logical than saying, don't wear seat belts because there's a teeny tiny chance it might slip and strangle you.

Final thoughts for the morning - everybody will get covid eventually, because it is contagious and we cannot stop it spreading indefinitely.
Covid kills around 1% of the population. And we will all slowly move towards the higher risk age groups as each year passes - it isn't going to magically vanish. Even if you believe that everybody who had the vaccine and later died, died of the vaccine (a totally bonkers belief btw) then based on latest data*, the death rate is 0.0019%.

Now, I am no gambling man, but I'd take those odds! My maths might be wrong. Feel free to correct me - but I very much doubt it is anywhere near to 1%.

Remember, even if you have already had covid, you will get it again - antibodies don't last forever, we get older and weaker, and the virus mutates. Get a vaccine or play Russian Roulette with coronavirus.

Could any antivaxxers tell us what these risks are that they have carefully researched?

* "More than 369 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through August 30, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,218 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem." - so the actual death rate from the vaccine is likely lower than 0.0019%.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

[JohnD]

It's interesting that almost all this anti vax propaganda is sourced from just twelve people. I wonder which one ellal's stories come from.

 

[Notch7]

You say you don't know what's in the vaccine, but you don't know any more about what's in most of what you put in your body, ie food, drink, vitamins, other medicines etc. I bet you had you children vaccinated against German Measles, amongst other vaccines. I bet you don't know what was in that either.

I had a anti-vaxxer telling me the other day the vaccines contain Polyethylene glycol "Im not having a vaccie containing a dangerous poison.
when I pointed out its routinely used in all manner of products including toothpaste, he never responded.......they never do when they are proven wrong

 

[JohnD]

"Over my cold dead body"

Sadly that could be the case.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Of course you haven't heard it used, delayed onset effects are very unusual and have only ever been seen within a few months of vaccination.

Ok. It's been, as you said, nine months since the first vaccine so, presumably only six months since the second dose.
Is that long enough to discount anything untoward happening in the future?

Think of the blood clotting issue with AZ, it isn't a long term effect,

Are you now saying that causing death or a stroke is not a long term effect?

the excessive clotting only happens for a short while. It can have a delay of a couple of weeks between vaccination and it causing the clotting, and if it causes a stroke the stroke can cause long term effects. But those effects are immediately visible from the stroke occuring. Those are real adverse reactions/effects.

Ok.

What you keep saying you're concerned by is a condition that takes an infinite time to take effect but is very severe.

I am not that concerned; I am just saying that no one can know yet.

An evil unicorn might be the best technical term for that.

Well, of course, something that doesn't exist could be a valid comparison.


So, in your work, like many others, ordinary English phrases come to only mean one specific thing (long term side effects only means side efects that happen quickly and last a long term but not side effects that happen after a long term - that is called something else even though the words also mean that).


Fair enough, so exposure to asbestos and smoking have no long term side effects in your terminology.

 

[Mottie]

Sadly that could be the case.

JohnD doesn’t care. Good game this, John. Pointless but you started it. Your turn.