Climate: The Movie

[gas112]

That is an absurdly stupid analysis. Picking two years and trying to draw a trend?

And using the warmest year ever to state that the second and third hottest years were evidence of cooling (all in the last three years) is just absurd. Was that an April fools article?

and you think picking 170 years out of . 4,540, 000,000 is not absurdly stupid ......Say no more

 

[carmanmemoranda]

To say that you've seen that is like hearing somebody claim to have seen angels and spirits.

What you have seen is weather.

To the extent that there has been climate change, bearing in mind that the climate is dynamic and always has been, how do you know what it would look like right now if there hadn't been any human society? You cannot know what it would look like and nor can anybody else. You can guess or hypothesise, you can try to model it. That is all.

And this brings us back to my point, it isn't about acting or burying one's head. Those are extremes. How much action should be taken on the precautionary principle? There is a massive scale here. Do you want to dramatically reduce the human population? If so, will you be volunteering? Do you want all cars and heating systems to be banned? Do you want green taxes? What do you want to be done to address a problem you have admitted is not certain? Also, what do you intend to do about China, India and the other countries who don't give a damn about it and are building fleets of coal powered plants on a monthly basis? In case it has escaped your attention, we now have very little in the way of industry or a military and have massive debts, so our ability to force action is pretty limited. Same applies to the rest of the Western countries, bar the US which is also declining relative to the other major world bloc.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but asking what it is you think should be done and when will our sacrifices be enough to satisfy your interpretation of the precautionary principle?

What a lot of words to say nothing.

Are you disputing climate change us happening? Surely the only issue that matters is what's causing it?

Can you or anybody rule out manus affecting it.

Now we either do something abut it or we go and bury our heads in the sand.

Until you can rule out mankind is affecting things you are just wasting time

 

[gas112]

We should be taxing carbon more heavily and using that to subsidise energy saving measures targeted at lower income groups. Building standards should be improved to require a much higher standard of energy efficiency.

We should be planning for the managed decline in fossil fuel use and scaling up onshore and offshore wind as well as interconnectors to places like Spain and even Morocco.

so why are you wasting energy being on here ? ,what electric car you know the one recharged with the help of fossil fuels do you have and how heavy is that jumper you make the wife wear instead of putting on your gas central heating

 

[Deleted member 221031]

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Notch, you are behaving obsessively and continuing to carpet bomb the thread

Irony alert

 

[carmanmemoranda]

View attachment 339122

Laurel ?

Or Hardy ?

 

[berty3000]

What a lot of words to say nothing.

Are you disputing climate change us happening? Surely the only issue that matters is what's causing it?

Can you or anybody rule out manus affecting it.

Now we either do something abut it or we go and bury our heads in the sand.

Until you can rule out mankind is affecting things you are just wasting time

So answer the question then: what should be done? And what are you doing?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

So answer the question then: what should be done? And what are you doing?

When you answer , after you

 

[berty3000]

We should be taxing carbon more heavily and using that to subsidise energy saving measures targeted at lower income groups. Building standards should be improved to require a much higher standard of energy efficiency.

We should be planning for the managed decline in fossil fuel use and scaling up onshore and offshore wind as well as interconnectors to places like Spain and even Morocco.

Do you mean taxing carbon dioxide?

Would this involve taxing children who breathe out carbon dioxide with every breath?

We are already doing the other things you've mentionedand have been for some time. Industry is leaving and homes are in short supply because they are so expensive to build. Do you think our environmental impact will improve if we become an impoverished country?

Also, what will your proposals achieve in the global context when China and other countries keep developing and becoming more powerful using fossil fuels?

Finally, you keep saying "we"... what are YOU doing? Have you given up your car and other consumer goods yet - all made using oil, fossil fuels, mined minerals...? How are you posting on this forum? If you haven't then we might be forgiven for thinking you don't really believe very strongly in what you claim to...

 

[Notch7]

and you think picking 170 years out of . 4,540, 000,000 is not absurdly stupid ......Say no more

its not absurdly stupid because the change has been in temperature and co2 levels have been so rapid

 

[Notch7]

homes are in short supply because they are so expensive to build

building energy efficient homes does not make houses expensive

houses have been built for many years in Germany, France, Norway, Denmark with much higher energy efficiency levels



houses are expensive due to the market

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Do you mean taxing carbon dioxide?

Would this involve taxing children who breathe out carbon dioxide with every breath?

We are already doing the other things you've mentionedand have been for some time. Industry is leaving and homes are in short supply because they are so expensive to build. Do you think our environmental impact will improve if we become an impoverished country?

Also, what will your proposals achieve in the global context when China and other countries keep developing and becoming more powerful using fossil fuels?

Finally, you keep saying "we"... what are YOU doing? Have you given up your car and other consumer goods yet - all made using oil, fossil fuels, mined minerals...? How are you posting on this forum? If you haven't then we might be forgiven for thinking you don't really believe very strongly in what you claim to...

So you're not disputing it's affecting us, it's just the price that you don't like ?

 

[Notch7]

Also, what will your proposals achieve in the global context when China and other countries keep developing and becoming more powerful using fossil fuels?

China is leading the way on green technologies

 

[Notch7]

View attachment 339122

NWGS thinks covid and radiation sickness are the same

poor chap

 

[berty3000]

When you answer , after you

So you don't have an answer. You want to do something, anything, but cannot say what or how... Great.

My view has been clearly stated. I don't think we have enough certainty to determine sound policies at this time. I am happy for the precautionary approach to be applied but it must be reasonable and within our economic means, also worthwhile.

I do not think we should go any further with green initiatives until more is understood. The banning of IC vehicles and gas boilers should be repealed, and we should allow fracking to aid our energy security and balance of trade. I would not repeal the other green measures put in place, and we can be proud of what this country has done to lower its environmental footprint over the past thirty years. But it is time to take stock. Net Zero is extreme and not adequately justified.

Right now, China is churning out cheap renewable energy solutions designed in the west, using fossil fuels to power the process, and we are importing the stuff which puts our bills up and will need to be landfilled in the future. The global benefit is zero and we end up economically disadvantaged and with less energy security. It is a Net Fail.