Copper v Plastic

[RichA]

I couldn't see a recent thread and feel it is likely plastic pipes have moved on int he last 10 years.

What are the pros/cons of plastic?

I am having a full refurb and the builder is recommending plastic for the pipework (fewer joints, easier to route without notching joists).

Is plastic now the norm? Is it better/worse? Is it cheaper?

Many thanks.

 

[Hot&Cold]

Is plastic now the norm? Is it better/worse? Is it cheaper?

the installer will need to install all pipework the same way they would install it in their own property. see so many plastic plumbing installations where hidden fittings leak due to poor installation

 

[RichA]

Thanks. I guess you always want installers to install at least as well as they would their own. But would any installer chose plastic over copper?

The theory with plastic is less joins (just at the rad tails).


Polypipe sales pitch:

Less installation hassle: In terms of ease of installation, they make the job easier at every turn with easy cutting; push fit joints and superb flexibility and handling qualities making every installation quicker. Plus, with no welding or soldering required, they make the job safer, too.

Less potential for leaks: As plastic pipes are usually available in longer lengths than copper, less joints are normally required. Plus, push fit joints can provide equal if not better integrity than traditional ones as well as being far quicker to install.​

 

[JP_]

I went with copper this year, just because I had a bad experience with plastic.
My advice would be that if you have plastic, insist that no fittings are buried or hidden anywhere - e.g. no junctions for rads (each pipe going to just one other radiator) all fittings visible under sinks, behind bath panels etc. and not behind tiling or under flooring. If they say not possible to that, get copper soldered all the way.
Also ask for easy access isolation valves on all ends etc. In my last house I had to take an axe to boxing around the loo pipework when I had a leak. Madness.
And one builder put push fit in, and was going to screed over, even though it was already leaking!

 

[Hot&Cold]

Seen so many plastic plumbing giving faults (leaking etc). all down to install error.

An experienced copper pipe installer will have transferable skills to ensure plastic plumbing is best installed to the best practice,doubt diy installers will have the transferable skills.

Buying materials off the shelf in a shed has its limitations

What is traditionally allowed to be plumbing diy,maybe just exchanging tap washers only ?

 

[JP_]

I am tempted to get a blowtorch and do my own pipes for new bathroom. I mean, how hard can it be
You can get fittings with the solder already in - this has to be easier and better than plastic surely?
https://www.ableskills.co.uk/blog/tutorials/how-to-use-a-solder-ring-join-for-copper-pipes/

 

[muggles]

Copper is proper

 

[bernardgreen]

and plastic is drastic...

 

[ReganAndCarter]

the installer will need to install all pipework the same way they would install it in their own property.

The pipework in my house is 100% copper - some recent that I altered myself, but lots dating back almost 60 years to when the house was built. That sentence means that as a plumber, I only put copper in my own property and also the fact that properly installed copper can last 60 years. Don't doubt that it's going to last a lot longer than that.

However, I often fit plastic in other people's houses. Two reasons for this is that price and speed of installation are often the only considerations. I would hope that it lasts 60 years, but very much doubt that it would.

 

[RichA]

Seems like the consensus is that copper is better (although plastic might be ok). I agreed a fixed price for the CH so this is about making the decision on what will be best, be most reliable, require the least maintenance, etc. To clarify both copper & plastic would be done by a pro, this is way outside my comfort zone.

 

[just pumps]

Mice and rats like plastic, that`s enough reasons for me.

 

[bernardgreen]

Copper may be healthier for drinking water supplies

Microbiology, chemistry and biofilm development in a pilot drinking water distribution system with copper and plastic pipes.
Lehtola MJ1, Miettinen IT, Keinänen MM, Kekki TK, Laine O, Hirvonen A, Vartiainen T, Martikainen PJ.


Abstract
We studied the changes in water quality and formation of biofilms occurring in a pilot-scale water distribution system with two generally used pipe materials: copper and plastic (polyethylene, PE). The formation of biofilms with time was analysed as the number of total bacteria, heterotrophic plate counts and the concentration of ATP in biofilms. At the end of the experiment (after 308 days), microbial community structure, viable biomass and gram-negative bacterial biomass were analysed via lipid biomarkers (phospholipid fatty acids and lipopolysaccharide 3-hydroxy fatty acids), and the numbers of virus-like particles and total bacteria were enumerated by SYBR Green I staining. The formation of biofilm was slower in copper pipes than in the PE pipes, but after 200 days there was no difference in microbial numbers between the pipe materials. Copper ion led to lower microbial numbers in water during the first 200 days, but thereafter there were no differences between the two pipe materials. The number of virus-like particles was lower in biofilms and in outlet water from the copper pipes than PE pipes. Pipe material influenced also the microbial and gram-negative bacterial community structure in biofilms and water.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15350429

other studies are available.

 

[durhamplumber]

other studies are available.

And endless copper vs plastic opinions.People want RR job for reliant money..plastic can be run under floor boards in one length,saving lots of chew on lifting boards,moving stuff,lifting carpets.plastic is fine if fitted correctly.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Mice and rats will go though copper just as easily as plastic.

Plastic is fine if installed properly. I have loads in my house. I also have copper for where it is likely to be visible because plastic invariably looks schit.

 

[Ian H]

Installer error, first day in new house: