Do i need to rewire or upgrade consumer unit for EICR??

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Hey guys

The old consumer unit installed in 2004 or 2005 is in the basement of a 4 bedroom terraced house.

The family are thinking of either selling or letting the property out, which I presume would require a EICR cert.

My question is then that will require a new consumer unit ? Previous one doesn't have RCD or RCBO.

Kitchen and 1 bedroom has had downlight installed a 5 years ago by sparky. But based in what I've read recently, this will now fail the EICR? Is this correct?

Also to have consumer unit UPGRADE with RCD would it a require a Full rewire?? Or can it be done without a rewire ?

I am happy to get the downlights taken out and restore the original lights if it will make less work and cost less.


Thanks for any advice.
 
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this is all a bit what if

So if they want to rent out the property will need a satisfactory EICR - so get one done and see what it recommends

Spending money on things you think might need doing first is probably a waste of money

There is no requirement for an EICR if they are selling
 
this is all a bit what if

So if they want to rent out the property will need a satisfactory EICR - so get one done and see what it recommends

Spending money on things you think might need doing first is probably a waste of money

There is no requirement for an EICR if they are selling


Okay the question I should really ask. If there isn't any modifications on existing circuits ie downlights etc.

Can an RCD consumer unit be installed without rewiring. The previous rewiring would have have been done 2005 with black and reed cables.
 
I had a new consumer unit fitted and no rewire necessary. The downlights in the bathroom had to be replaced for a reason I forget, the electric shower isolator switch had to be replaced, the lights throughout the house had to have earths fitted and the bonding to the gas pipe had to be re-done.. The EICR prior to this found that there was no good earth connection to the property and so they fitted one before they left on the day of the inspection. (We did have some earth, probably through the water pipe bonding). So an EICR will probably throw up similar issues and when resolved you'll get your certificates. My house wiring on the ring mains was from the 80s and they said that it was fine.
 
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I had a new consumer unit fitted and no rewire necessary. The downlights in the bathroom had to be replaced for a reason I forget, the electric shower isolator switch had to be replaced, the lights throughout the house had to have earths fitted and the bonding to the gas pipe had to be re-done.. The EICR prior to this found that there was no good earth connection to the property and so they fitted one before they left on the day of the inspection. (We did have some earth, probably through the water pipe bonding). So an EICR will probably throw up similar issues and when resolved you'll get your certificates. My house wiring on the ring mains was from the 80s and they said that it was fine.


Seems like a big messy job if you have had to do that to the whole house.
 
Wrong way round. EICR first. Get any C1 & C2s fixed ( not necessarily by the same electrician....get quotes).

Keep original EICR together with EICs from the remedial work.

Job done.
 
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Wrong way round. EICR first. Get any C1 & C2s fixed ( not necessarily by the same electrician....get quotes).

Keep original EICR together with EICs from the remedial work.

Job done.

Thanks for that mate. What's a rough guide price for a terraced 4 bedroom . 1 bathroom 1 kitchen roughly with a basement ?
 
Why do you think downlights make any difference to anything?

Because from what I read recently online was on the old consumer unit , you can't really add any additions to the fixed circuits. Maybe I've read it wrong or not.

But that's a good point you made there. Can a EICR be passed on an old consumer board without RCD or RCBO on it ? Or does the reg require it for rental now
 
Thanks for that mate. What's a rough guide price for a terraced 4 bedroom . 1 bathroom 1 kitchen roughly with a basement ?
I wouldn't know, I don't do domestic. It depends on many things, you need to get some quotes.
Someone else may have a better idea
 
Because from what I read recently online was on the old consumer unit , you can't really add any additions to the fixed circuits. Maybe I've read it wrong or not.
You must have misunderstood something.

But that's a good point you made there. Can a EICR be passed on an old consumer board without RCD or RCBO on it ?
Yes.

Or does the reg require it for rental now
More or less, yes.

It is not an electrical regulation but the government bodge for the Private Rental Sector which they seem intent on destroying.
 
The EICR no longer has a code 4, so it should not reflect the current edition of BS 7671 however the regulations in the CENELEC harmonisation documents are the reason why BS 7671 is some times updated, and no electrician wants to wade through them, and changes in what we use, and also mean we need to up date, electric cars, solar panels use if LED lights have all changed what is required, and manufacturers instructions with items like boilers can stipulate no only RCD protection but also what type.

Unlike an MOT the inspector is not given a book to rigidly follow, he is given some guide lines only, like this one from the electrical safety first there are others which give different advice but it is left to the inspector to decide what codes to give.

He could give all faults found code C3 which is improvement recommended, and since he has highlighted the fault he has broken no rules, but he can also code as C2 Potentially dangerous or C1 Danger, or even FI further investigation required, and C2, C1 and FI are fails, so all at the whim of the inspector, no one can say he is right or wrong, it is his personal option.

Even the phrase "Electrical installation" the building regulations define it as
“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;
and BS 7671
Electrical installation (abbr: installation). An assembly of associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated characteristics to fulfil Specific purposes.
However as electricians we tend to divide the testing into two groups, the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment often called PAT testing, and the EICR, so with the exception of lights, current using equipment comes under PAT testing and the wiring only under the EICR and although we can't dismantle to test, any fault on the DNO side of the installation would be reported.

But for the English landlord law, any item over 18 kg without wheels, or fixed to the fabric of the building should be tested with the EICR, however most electricians would not want to remove the covers of a gas boiler. So we are safer limiting our testing to the non current using part of the installation.

So as a landlord it is a problem, as you are at the whim of the inspector, however I would think some aspects are really down to some common sense. I can live in my house with no RCD protection quite safely as I will not allow others to play, and I have no children or old relatives any more likely to do daft things, when my mother was alive, with Alzheimer's and poor eye sight, she saw a red flicker on an extension lead, (The power neon) so put it in a bucket of water, so to protect her clearly RCD protection of all sockets is required. And as the landlord you have no control over who comes into the home and what they do, from knocking nails in the wall for pictures etc. So in real terms even if not strictly required, one does want RCD protection, the landlord does not want emergency call outs, so all RCBO has to be the way to go.

As to condition of wiring, in 1966 the rules changed on earthing lights, and by that time we had stopped using rubber cables, so wiring after 1966 is likely still OK today. As to down lights, these are not suspended, so must have an earth to the lamp unless extra low voltage, what has caught people out is were extra low voltage has been converted to low voltage, (230 volt) and no earth added, but as to what coding not so sure, I would say C3 would not consider potentially dangerous and give a C2, however the LED lamp runs cool, so with the old tungsten no one in their right mind would try changing a bulb while it was powered up, but today the might.

Also some electricians seem to go beyond their remit, to my mind we are only looking at electrical safety, any other safety inspection is down to some one trained in that aspect, so gas and fire have nothing to do with the EICR but I have heard of electricians giving a C2 to out of date smoke detectors.

This forum is full of arguments about what should be included, but in most cases if the landlord had followed is morrow responsibility then argument would not have existed, as a owner occupier I can make the selection RCD or not, and I have all RCBO's, but as a tenant I don't have the option, so I feel with rented accommodation RCD protection is required. Although I also feel it is not a legal requirement, but would be a very poor landlord who does not provide it. But once an inspector has coded it as code C2, your hands are tied.
 
The EICR no longer has a code 4, so it should not reflect the current edition of BS 7671 however the regulations in the CENELEC harmonisation documents are the reason why BS 7671 is some times updated, and no electrician wants to wade through them, and changes in what we use, and also mean we need to up date, electric cars, solar panels use if LED lights have all changed what is required, and manufacturers instructions with items like boilers can stipulate no only RCD protection but also what type.

Unlike an MOT the inspector is not given a book to rigidly follow, he is given some guide lines only, like this one from the electrical safety first there are others which give different advice but it is left to the inspector to decide what codes to give.

He could give all faults found code C3 which is improvement recommended, and since he has highlighted the fault he has broken no rules, but he can also code as C2 Potentially dangerous or C1 Danger, or even FI further investigation required, and C2, C1 and FI are fails, so all at the whim of the inspector, no one can say he is right or wrong, it is his personal option.

Even the phrase "Electrical installation" the building regulations define it as and BS 7671 However as electricians we tend to divide the testing into two groups, the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment often called PAT testing, and the EICR, so with the exception of lights, current using equipment comes under PAT testing and the wiring only under the EICR and although we can't dismantle to test, any fault on the DNO side of the installation would be reported.

But for the English landlord law, any item over 18 kg without wheels, or fixed to the fabric of the building should be tested with the EICR, however most electricians would not want to remove the covers of a gas boiler. So we are safer limiting our testing to the non current using part of the installation.

So as a landlord it is a problem, as you are at the whim of the inspector, however I would think some aspects are really down to some common sense. I can live in my house with no RCD protection quite safely as I will not allow others to play, and I have no children or old relatives any more likely to do daft things, when my mother was alive, with Alzheimer's and poor eye sight, she saw a red flicker on an extension lead, (The power neon) so put it in a bucket of water, so to protect her clearly RCD protection of all sockets is required. And as the landlord you have no control over who comes into the home and what they do, from knocking nails in the wall for pictures etc. So in real terms even if not strictly required, one does want RCD protection, the landlord does not want emergency call outs, so all RCBO has to be the way to go.

As to condition of wiring, in 1966 the rules changed on earthing lights, and by that time we had stopped using rubber cables, so wiring after 1966 is likely still OK today. As to down lights, these are not suspended, so must have an earth to the lamp unless extra low voltage, what has caught people out is were extra low voltage has been converted to low voltage, (230 volt) and no earth added, but as to what coding not so sure, I would say C3 would not consider potentially dangerous and give a C2, however the LED lamp runs cool, so with the old tungsten no one in their right mind would try changing a bulb while it was powered up, but today the might.

Also some electricians seem to go beyond their remit, to my mind we are only looking at electrical safety, any other safety inspection is down to some one trained in that aspect, so gas and fire have nothing to do with the EICR but I have heard of electricians giving a C2 to out of date smoke detectors.

This forum is full of arguments about what should be included, but in most cases if the landlord had followed is morrow responsibility then argument would not have existed, as a owner occupier I can make the selection RCD or not, and I have all RCBO's, but as a tenant I don't have the option, so I feel with rented accommodation RCD protection is required. Although I also feel it is not a legal requirement, but would be a very poor landlord who does not provide it. But once an inspector has coded it as code C2, your hands are tied.


Thanks for the indepth reply, I really do appreciate it.

I spoke to my family about this. They do want to get the consumer updated. But if they can hold off for a while as money is pretty tight hence why the need of moving into another family's house and leasing the current one.
Once they get 1 or 3 payments from Tennant they'll use it to get more jobs including a new CU put in.

So I am quite confused as they have an old CU without RCD or RCBO etc. Which was installed in 2005. The kitchen and 1 bedroom had got downlights installed without RCD CU. Was that permissible?

Also was it a common practice in the early 1996 to also fit earth with all the lighting and sockets ?

I do have a few equipment ie megger continuity and insulation resistance meter and 2 pole voltage tester. If I turn off the CU.. I can try and test the lights and sockets just to get a rough idea. What tests should I carry out ? And what should I look out for in main sockets and lights ?
 
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SORRY GUYS , OUR CONSUMER UNIT AND WIRING WAS DONE IN 1996. APOLOGIES FOR THE MIXUP.
 
I spoke to my family about this. They do want to get the consumer updated. But if they can hold off for a while as money is pretty tight hence why the need of moving into another family's house and leasing the current one.
Once they get 1 or 3 payments from Tennant they'll use it to get more jobs including a new CU put in.
You will have to get a "Safety Report" before you can have tenants.

So I am quite confused as they have an old CU without RCD or RCBO etc. Which was installed in 2005. The kitchen and 1 bedroom had got downlights installed without RCD CU. Was that permissible?
In 1996, yes.

Also was it a common practice in the early 2000s to also fit earth with all the lighting and sockets ?
If there was no earth in the existing lighting circuit then fitting lights and switches that did not require an earth would be alright.
Sockets always required an earth connection.

I do have a few equipment ie megger continuity and insulation resistance meter and 2 pole voltage tester. If I turn off the CU.. I can try and test the lights and sockets just to get a rough idea. What tests should I carry out ? And what should I look out for in main sockets and lights ?
For what purpose?

You cannot have tenants until you have a Safety Inspection Report.
 

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