Do i need to rewire or upgrade consumer unit for EICR??

[jcaan]

You will have to get a "Safety Report" before you can have tenants.

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020

These Regulations impose duties on private landlords of residential premises in England in respect of electrical safety standards. The duties do not apply to landlords of social housing. The Regulations require local housing authorities to enforce the duties, and include a power to arrange...

www.legislation.gov.uk

The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020

These Regulations impose duties on private landlords of residential premises in England in respect of electrical safety standards. The duties do not apply to landlords of social housing. The Regulations require local housing authorities to enforce the duties, and include a power to arrange...

www.legislation.gov.uk

In 1996, yes.


If there was no earth in the existing lighting circuit then fitting lights and switches that did not require an earth would be alright.
Sockets always required an earth connection.


For what purpose?

You cannot have tenants until you have a Safety Inspection Report.

Thank you for that mate ... so if the wiring is okay despite being installed in 1996, I could still potentially pass a EIRC if everything is kosher ?

Is the safety inspection report same as the EICR?

Yes we will definitely get that done. I just don't want any faults and a fail. I'll do some testing myself first . Post them up here possibly of what I find. Hopefully learn something along the way.

Then get a sparky in to do an official EICR.

They probably won't get Tennants in until a good few months yet as we're going to get some jobs done to the house first.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thank you for that mate ... so if the wiring is okay despite being installed in 1996, I could still potentially pass a EIRC if everything is kosher ?

An EICR for personal use; not for renting.

Is the safety inspection report same as the EICR?

Yes and no.
The government introduced the Private Rental Sector Safety Report in 2020 but there is no such thing and they did not determine what the safety report was other than complying with the latest electrical regulations - which an EICR does not require - so electricians were told to do an EICR using the latest regulations.
It is not supposed to make sense.

Incidentally, it is similar to the recent fuss about condensation in rented properties - seemingly good intent but no thought on how to achieve it.

Yes we will definitely get that done. I just don't want any faults and a fail. I'll do some testing myself first . Post them up here possibly of what I find. Hopefully learn something along the way.

Then get a sparky in to do an official EICR.

They probably won't get Tennants in until a good few months yet as we're going to get some jobs done to the house first.

Ok.

 

[ericmark]

Did you have a cart and horse? The problem is once there is a fail with the EICR the person who repairs it will need to be fully qualified, as you will need all the paperwork to show it have been repaired by a qualified person. At the moment you can swap a socket etc, yourself, but if an EICR picked up a socket as faulty, then you can't.

I do understand, it took me 4 months to renew the CU in this house, but with rented the law only allows 2 weeks I think. I had it with mothers old house, the letting agent came in and gave us a list of what needed to be done, already rewired, but wanted new hob as only two rings on one fitted and the list went on, we had a offer to buy the house, and it was simply not worth the hassle to put it all right, so sold the house.

Where I live in Wales landlords are selling up, we are seeing mobile homes replace houses as the regulations on mobile homes are not as tight. It seems the government would prefer people to sleep on the street to living in a sub standard home.

I could do my own EICR, which seems a bit daft, and as long as I list all the faults as a code C3 not C2, I can rent the home out. But there are the so called drive past EICR seen by unscrupulous electricians as money for nothing, I am sure you could find some one who feels they are a

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

to sign an EICR even if there are faults.

As to if this will give you a get out of jail free card not so sure.

 

[Murdochcat]

Thank you for that mate ... so if the wiring is okay despite being installed in 1996, I could still potentially pass a EIRC if everything is kosher ?

Is the safety inspection report same as the EICR?

Yes we will definitely get that done. I just don't want any faults and a fail. I'll do some testing myself first . Post them up here possibly of what I find. Hopefully learn something along the way.

Then get a sparky in to do an official EICR.

They probably won't get Tennants in until a good few months yet as we're going to get some jobs done to the house first.

As in my first post. Don’t waste your time doing anything.

Get a proper EICR done and take it from there

The latest version of the electrical safety council best practice guide No 4 issue 7 makes an interesting read …..

 

[Murdochcat]

An EICR for personal use; not for renting.

Not sure I agree with this

The government introduced the Private Rental Sector Safety Report in 2020 but there is no such thing and they did not determine what the safety report was other than complying with the latest electrical regulations

The PRS legislation refers to inspecting to the 18th edition - NOT complying with it

which an EICR does not require - so electricians were told to do an EICR using the latest regulations.

Yes use the 18th edition , but only to inspect to so use of. C3’s is to be expected

NAPIT muddied the water with their code busters book
The NICEIC directed their sparks to use the BPG no 4 - issue 5 I think

 

[jcaan]

An EICR for personal use; not for renting.


Yes and no.
The government introduced the Private Rental Sector Safety Report in 2020 but there is no such thing and they did not determine what the safety report was other than complying with the latest electrical regulations - which an EICR does not require - so electricians were told to do an EICR using the latest regulations.
It is not supposed to make sense.

Incidentally, it is similar to the recent fuss about condensation in rented properties - seemingly good intent but no thought on how to achieve it.


Ok.

Oh i see. It is confusing but does make sense, if that makes sense lol. Which basically will need to complete either elec regulations and therefore an EICR will be needed as the government was clear.

So a safety report is needed for letting the property out, but we'll need to do an EICR.

Can I ask who then does the safety report ?

My last question is in relation to what I asked before. DO you know what tests I can do before I get an EICR done ? Just so I can see where we're at before I hire someone to do the inspections etc

 

[jcaan]

Not sure I agree with this



The PRS legislation refers to inspecting to the 18th edition - NOT complying with it




Yes use the 18th edition , but only to inspect to so use of. C3’s is to be expected

NAPIT muddied the water with their code busters book
The NICEIC directed their sparks to use the BPG no 4 - issue 5 I think

Does the EICR get recorded anywhere ? Or just given to the homeowner ?

 

[jcaan]

Did you have a cart and horse? The problem is once there is a fail with the EICR the person who repairs it will need to be fully qualified, as you will need all the paperwork to show it have been repaired by a qualified person. At the moment you can swap a socket etc, yourself, but if an EICR picked up a socket as faulty, then you can't.

I do understand, it took me 4 months to renew the CU in this house, but with rented the law only allows 2 weeks I think. I had it with mothers old house, the letting agent came in and gave us a list of what needed to be done, already rewired, but wanted new hob as only two rings on one fitted and the list went on, we had a offer to buy the house, and it was simply not worth the hassle to put it all right, so sold the house.

Where I live in Wales landlords are selling up, we are seeing mobile homes replace houses as the regulations on mobile homes are not as tight. It seems the government would prefer people to sleep on the street to living in a sub standard home.

I could do my own EICR, which seems a bit daft, and as long as I list all the faults as a code C3 not C2, I can rent the home out. But there are the so called drive past EICR seen by unscrupulous electricians as money for nothing, I am sure you could find some one who feels they are a to sign an EICR even if there are faults.

As to if this will give you a get out of jail free card not so sure.

Yes mate we will get a competent electrition to look at it.

I just wanted to do some testing etc before since I have some equipment that I could put to use and get abit clued up about things

 

[Murdochcat]

Can I ask who then does the safety report ?

My last question is in relation to what I asked before. DO you know what tests I can do before I get an EICR done ? Just so I can see where we're at before I hire someone to do the inspections etc

think of the EICR as the safety report

As for you doing any testing - that’s pointless and won’t save you money - in fact it might end up costing you more.

The spark is the person who does the testing, creates the report and signs it

 

[Murdochcat]

Does the EICR get recorded anywhere ? Or just given to the homeowner ?

Yes given to homeowner who in turn HAS to give a copy to the tenant

 

[EFLImpudence]

So a safety report is needed for letting the property out, but we'll need to do an EICR.

Yes, because there is no such thing as a safety report so they do an EICR with different conditions for rented properties.

Can I ask who then does the safety report ?

A person competent to do EICRs. There is no test for competence.

It is a shambles.

My last question is in relation to what I asked before. DO you know what tests I can do before I get an EICR done ? Just so I can see where we're at before I hire someone to do the inspections etc

No point doing any..

 

[EFLImpudence]

Does the EICR get recorded anywhere ? Or just given to the homeowner ?

Only recorded by the inspector who gives you a copy which you must give to the tenant.

 

[Murdochcat]

It is a TOTAL shambles.

Edited that for you.

Made worse by forums and internet contributors who think they know better

 

[JohnW2]

Did you have a cart and horse? The problem is once there is a fail with the EICR the person who repairs it will need to be fully qualified, as you will need all the paperwork to show it have been repaired by a qualified person. At the moment you can swap a socket etc, yourself, but if an EICR picked up a socket as faulty, then you can't.

As we know, it's a mess. Whilst what you say above is partially true, as you go on to quote, for the purpose of the legislation, a "qualified person" merely has to be 'competent', with no requirement for them to have any formal 'qualifications'. However, having recently been thinking more about this, I think there are probably some aspects that we may sometimes have been overlooking ....

..... When an initial inspection indicates that remedial work is required ('within 28 days'),the legislation appears to say nothing about who can do that remedial work. It merely says that, once it has been done, the landlord must ...

.... (a)obtain written confirmation from a qualified person that the further investigative or remedial work has been carried out and that—
(i)the electrical safety standards are met;

It therefore would seem that anyone (even a DIYer) could do the remedial work, provided only that a "qualified person" then confirmed hat the work had satisfactory remedied the defects identified in the initial inspection?

2... More generally, whilst the legislation imposes a maximum interval between 'routine' electrical inspections (5 years),there is no minimum. Hence, if a further inspection is undertaken just a few weeks (or less!) after a previous one which revealed defects which have subserviently been remedied, then that 'new' ('clean') inspection report presumably becomes the relevant and 'active' one which is relevant to the ongoing tenancy, doesn't it.

In fact, perhaps 'confirming that', when the legislation goes on to speak about the issuing (by LA) of 'remedial notices';, it refers to ".... the most recent report under regulation 3(3) ...".

So maybe it's not quite as bad as we have always suggested in the part. Whilst many (including myself) have suggested that a landlord cannot avoid undertaking remedial work ('within 28 days') as required by an initial inspection/EICR and, in particular, cannot get a 'second opinion' inspection/EICR in the hope that will be 'cleaner', there actually seems nothing stopping a landlord having a further ('routine') inspection/ICR undertaken, at which point that 'most recent' one presumably becomes the one relevant to a current and ongoing tenancy.

Indeed,if one dares to invoke 'common sense', if the "most recent" inspection report indicates that no remedial work is required, what work could an LA possibly ask/demand should be done?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Does the EICR get recorded anywhere ? Or just given to the homeowner ?

Just given to home owner and tenant and only to LABC if they ask for it.

I just wanted to do some testing etc before since I have some equipment that I could put to use and get abit clued up about things

I see nothing wrong with doing all you can before the test is done.

Can I ask who then does the safety report ?

In a perfect world the person should have passed C&G 2391 exam on inspection and testing, but when the law was drafted we were still part of the EU and had to exchange labour with other member states, so the law had to include anyone who was able to do the work, does not matter if a 4 year apprenticeship or a 12 week night class course, if one does not even need to show one is qualified.

Most laws are not written very well, and then are added to with case law, so when an electrician is taken to court and found guilty of not doing his job with an EICR that case can be quoted on another court case, there has been one, but the electrician pleaded guilty, he had written out the EICR without listing the many faults, but he was basic done for taking money and not doing the work, so little was generated as to case law.

However I for one do not want to be the case used to generate that case law, so you could down load the free forms from the IET web site and write your own EICR, and unless some thing goes wrong, likely you could get away with it. If the tenant complains to the LABC they can come and review your work, that can demand a copy of your EICR and go through it with a fine tooth comb, and also question your ability.

I have said before, when I bought this house I had a home buyers report done, and this included comments about the electrical system so was an EICR but not what we normally consider as being an EICR, he pointed out the disused fuse board hidden in the ceiling, only point was it was not disused.