It's more than five years since the referendum.
Rees Mogg says we should be over the worst in 50 years.
Driving in Europe
- Thread starter Mottie
- Start date
It's more than five years since the referendum.
Rees Mogg says we should be over the worst in 50 years.
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If this is a Brexit debate now I might just add that I work in a hospital and we are closing wards, cancelling theatre lists and not doing operations because many continental european staff members have been and are still being fobbed off by this and have gone already or are openly discussing to go home. The same goes for doctors. Do not blame the pandemic and pinging alone for this.
We - people in the UK - were told about 350 million extra, not less and long drawn out and painful.
I go shopping. The shelves are empty because there are no lorry drivers. They did not die from Corona, they went home, home being continental Europe.
The UK economy is suffering because of Brexit as you can see in the car industry. Remind me about which car maker is leaving the UK and how many have come here to open new factories in the tax free ports to be created. Many continental european companies have stopped trading with the UK altogether because of the customs barriers that were created as the UK is a third country like most african and asian countries. No more perks here, just slightly more difficult for trade. No replacement for all that yet. I know this is a long process.
Easy Jet has moved its headquarter to continental Europe and with it all the british pilots. Their UK licenses are not recognized now and they have to resit European exams to get European licences.
My brotherin law, who voted for Brexit - as a bye-the-bye, flies for Ryan Air. He is just applying for an Irish passport - no proper connection, but apparently a grand mother he never met, was irish - to avoid some restrictions applying to Brits now. Brits are regarded as leppers - his words.
If I order something small on Aliexpress or elsewhere now, suddenly I have to pay UK tax even for small and cheap items, that were tax exempt under EU rules.
Under EU rules the UK was kind of allowed to send asylum seekers back to a safe country and as there was no direct route to the UK any other country was safe. The UK has lost this ability now even though not so pretty Priti claims she can still do it. France and the EU do not think an agreement is in place.
The bike that you see in the avatar, was "imported" from continental Europe. I am not sure it would be as easy with the new british import rules and paper work plus licensing.
I am not sure how people can condone all the failings of the government over all this.
We - people in the UK - were told about 350 million extra, not less and long drawn out and painful.
I go shopping. The shelves are empty because there are no lorry drivers. They did not die from Corona, they went home, home being continental Europe.
The UK economy is suffering because of Brexit as you can see in the car industry. Remind me about which car maker is leaving the UK and how many have come here to open new factories in the tax free ports to be created. Many continental european companies have stopped trading with the UK altogether because of the customs barriers that were created as the UK is a third country like most african and asian countries. No more perks here, just slightly more difficult for trade. No replacement for all that yet. I know this is a long process.
Easy Jet has moved its headquarter to continental Europe and with it all the british pilots. Their UK licenses are not recognized now and they have to resit European exams to get European licences.
My brotherin law, who voted for Brexit - as a bye-the-bye, flies for Ryan Air. He is just applying for an Irish passport - no proper connection, but apparently a grand mother he never met, was irish - to avoid some restrictions applying to Brits now. Brits are regarded as leppers - his words.
If I order something small on Aliexpress or elsewhere now, suddenly I have to pay UK tax even for small and cheap items, that were tax exempt under EU rules.
Under EU rules the UK was kind of allowed to send asylum seekers back to a safe country and as there was no direct route to the UK any other country was safe. The UK has lost this ability now even though not so pretty Priti claims she can still do it. France and the EU do not think an agreement is in place.
The bike that you see in the avatar, was "imported" from continental Europe. I am not sure it would be as easy with the new british import rules and paper work plus licensing.
I am not sure how people can condone all the failings of the government over all this.
Car "industry", I'd prefer to call it! We convert vehicles for wheelchair access (mainly). We're big players, with abut 42% of the UK market share and were building up our export sales in the EU over the last 5 years, they'd been roughly doubling each year, but not this year. We have to "type" approve the vehicles to the EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval scheme, which of course, prior to the end of last year, could be obtained from the EU type approval authority in whichever EU Member State we fancied. Naturally, we used the UK's Vehicle Certification Agency, because they were one of the biggest and most respected approval authorities n the EU (in fact, probably THE most respected as the German one had rather put itself in the shade with the VW emissions cockup)!
Unfortunately, of course, when we voted to make ourselves a "third country", our type approval authority was no longer an "EU type approval authority", so the first job, was to re-do every single type approval that we held, with an EU approval authority so that we could continue selling our cars in the EU. We chose Sweden, because they at least agreed to a deal whereby they would accept test reports issued by the UK. However, it' very sad to see what was once one of the biggest approval authorities in the EU now reduced to being a "back office" for Sweden!
It doesn't end there though. Sweden can't deal direct with the UK's Vehicle Certification Agency. It has to deal with an EU "Technical Service", so we now have this ridiculously convoluted route where an Italian Technical Service called "VCA Europe" has been set up. This means that for every test report, making up every approval, We have to deal with a test lab (ideally in the UK) and get it witnessed by the Vehicle Certification Agency. They are sub-contracted to VCA Europe, who then check the documentation, before sending it to Sweden, who check it again and stamp it, then send it back to VCA in the UK, who send it back to us. A process that used to take three weeks, is now taking three months and costing about twice what it used to. In addition, as a "third country", we've now had to employ an "EU Manufacturer's Representative". Basically, an EU business, answerable to the EU Commission for any naughtiness to do with any of our cars, recalls, non- conformities, etc). The fact that it's his ass in the sling with the Commission if we're caught doing anything wrong, means he wants a fair chunk of dosh for his trouble! None of which was necessary when we were an EU Member State, of course!
Now... So much for the EU side of things. Of course, having "taken back control", we are no longer bound by EU regulations for the cars that are sold here! They need to meet the requirements of "GB National Type Approval". The only slight problem there, is that we… er... haven't actually written any yet! DfT is supposed to be "consulting in the Autumn" (but they said that last year too)! Seems our inept government thought they could just photocopy the EU regs and write "GB" on them instead, but it's actually nowhere near that simple! The technical requirements for GB National Type Approval are widely expected to b identical to those for EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval. This is because if they diverge, it will become even more of a ball-ache than it already is, making different specs of car for the UK and the EU. The most likely upshot would be that manufacturers who didn't sell big enough volumes of a particular model in the UK to justify the extra testing and paperwork, would simply decide not to offer that model in the UK, and charge us a bit more for the ones they DO offer in the UK, to cover the extra paperwork.
So, you're doubtless wondering what we are doing to sell our cars in GB now? (Not UK, because Northern Ireland is, of course, still working under EU rules). Well, we currently hold "Provisional GB National Type Approvals" for each of them. Basically, you get a Provisional GBNTA by first getting an EU type approval (yes, you couldn't make it up!), and then sending that to the Vehicle Certification Agency and they then give you the necessary GB certificates. Those are all valid for 2 years, so by the start of 2023, we'll need "proper" GB National Type Approvals to sell cars in GB. When you look at the VIN plate of car, you'll see its EC Whole Vehicle type approval number. It will start something like "e1*2007/46*1234". "e1" means the car was type approved in Germany. "e2" would be France, "e3" Italy....and so on - "e11" would be the UK. The other numbers are the EU Directive level it was approved under, and the last 4 digits are the approval number itself. At present, new cars being registered in the UK will still have that approval number on them, but by 01/01/23 (well, assuming we've got round to writing our own approval regulations by then), they will need a GB NTA number on there. (whatever form that ends up taking). At that point, we will need to hold two sets of approvals - one to sell in GB, the other to sell in the EU. So basically, we've just doubled the admin and the red tape. If we "diverge" from the EU technical requirements, then we'll also start doubling-up on the testing...
Good eh?
Then there's all the components we have to "CE" mark. Again, once GB sorts itself out, we've been told that we'll have to "UKCA" mark them as well. (Don't get me started on that, this post is too long as it is)!
As you can see, far from reducing red tape, it's an absolute clusterf*ck of extra bureaucracy and red tape! And, of course, you know who's going to be picking up the tab for all that, don't you?
In our supermarkets! Not only are we short of drivers, but perishable goods often aren't making it across the borders before it goes off. Meanwhile, since all those awful foreign EU-types stopped coming, our own fruit & veg crops are rotting in the fields with nobody to pick them! I had to try three supermarkets the other day before I could find the Mrs. a cucumber!
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Yes, up until she retired this year, Mrs. Avocet was an NHS doctor. Exactly the same things happening in her trust. Waiting lists are going to absolutely explode in the next 12 months, I reckon. But it' OK, the government has increased the number of places that medical schools are allowed to offer....
...pity it takes quite a long time to train a doctor...
Well, I truly can’t understand that - you must live in a different world to me. I have seen no empty shelves in my local supermarkets apart from when there was panic buying of bread, bog rolls, paracetamol and pasta at the beginning of the pandemic.
Wow. I didn’t realise that. That sounds like a major headache. Fingers crossed for you and your industry that our government gets its fingers out of its arse and sorts things out for you.Car "industry", I'd prefer to call it! We convert vehicles for wheelchair access (mainly). We're big players, with abut 42% of the UK market share and were building up our export sales in the EU over the last 5 years, they'd been roughly doubling each year, but not this year. We have to "type" approve the vehicles to the EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval scheme, which of course, prior to the end of last year, could be obtained from the EU type approval authority in whichever EU Member State we fancied. Naturally, we used the UK's Vehicle Certification Agency, because they were one of the biggest and most respected approval authorities n the EU (in fact, probably THE most respected as the German one had rather put itself in the shade with the VW emissions cockup)!
Unfortunately, of course, when we voted to make ourselves a "third country", our type approval authority was no longer an "EU type approval authority", so the first job, was to re-do every single type approval that we held, with an EU approval authority so that we could continue selling our cars in the EU. We chose Sweden, because they at least agreed to a deal whereby they would accept test reports issued by the UK. However, it' very sad to see what was once one of the biggest approval authorities in the EU now reduced to being a "back office" for Sweden!
It doesn't end there though. Sweden can't deal direct with the UK's Vehicle Certification Agency. It has to deal with an EU "Technical Service", so we now have this ridiculously convoluted route where an Italian Technical Service called "VCA Europe" has been set up. This means that for every test report, making up every approval, We have to deal with a test lab (ideally in the UK) and get it witnessed by the Vehicle Certification Agency. They are sub-contracted to VCA Europe, who then check the documentation, before sending it to Sweden, who check it again and stamp it, then send it back to VCA in the UK, who send it back to us. A process that used to take three weeks, is now taking three months and costing about twice what it used to. In addition, as a "third country", we've now had to employ an "EU Manufacturer's Representative". Basically, an EU business, answerable to the EU Commission for any naughtiness to do with any of our cars, recalls, non- conformities, etc). The fact that it's his ass in the sling with the Commission if we're caught doing anything wrong, means he wants a fair chunk of dosh for his trouble! None of which was necessary when we were an EU Member State, of course!
Now... So much for the EU side of things. Of course, having "taken back control", we are no longer bound by EU regulations for the cars that are sold here! They need to meet the requirements of "GB National Type Approval". The only slight problem there, is that we… er... haven't actually written any yet! DfT is supposed to be "consulting in the Autumn" (but they said that last year too)! Seems our inept government thought they could just photocopy the EU regs and write "GB" on them instead, but it's actually nowhere near that simple! The technical requirements for GB National Type Approval are widely expected to b identical to those for EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval. This is because if they diverge, it will become even more of a ball-ache than it already is, making different specs of car for the UK and the EU. The most likely upshot would be that manufacturers who didn't sell big enough volumes of a particular model in the UK to justify the extra testing and paperwork, would simply decide not to offer that model in the UK, and charge us a bit more for the ones they DO offer in the UK, to cover the extra paperwork.
So, you're doubtless wondering what we are doing to sell our cars in GB now? (Not UK, because Northern Ireland is, of course, still working under EU rules). Well, we currently hold "Provisional GB National Type Approvals" for each of them. Basically, you get a Provisional GBNTA by first getting an EU type approval (yes, you couldn't make it up!), and then sending that to the Vehicle Certification Agency and they then give you the necessary GB certificates. Those are all valid for 2 years, so by the start of 2023, we'll need "proper" GB National Type Approvals to sell cars in GB. When you look at the VIN plate of car, you'll see its EC Whole Vehicle type approval number. It will start something like "e1*2007/46*1234". "e1" means the car was type approved in Germany. "e2" would be France, "e3" Italy....and so on - "e11" would be the UK. The other numbers are the EU Directive level it was approved under, and the last 4 digits are the approval number itself. At present, new cars being registered in the UK will still have that approval number on them, but by 01/01/23 (well, assuming we've got round to writing our own approval regulations by then), they will need a GB NTA number on there. (whatever form that ends up taking). At that point, we will need to hold two sets of approvals - one to sell in GB, the other to sell in the EU. So basically, we've just doubled the admin and the red tape. If we "diverge" from the EU technical requirements, then we'll also start doubling-up on the testing...
Good eh?
Then there's all the components we have to "CE" mark. Again, once GB sorts itself out, we've been told that we'll have to "UKCA" mark them as well. (Don't get me started on that, this post is too long as it is)!
As you can see, far from reducing red tape, it's an absolute clusterf*ck of extra bureaucracy and red tape! And, of course, you know who's going to be picking up the tab for all that, don't you?
……the majority of which was wasted by MP's ignoring the wishes of the electorate along with court cases, stalling and general loser whingery. If we had gone for it straight after the decision, we’d be in a much better position by now. We might even have had a new government……
People like Johnson and Rees Mogg, who kept voting against all options, to stall progress.
"Gone for it?"
Gone for what?
Brexers did not agree among themselves what they wanted, before the referendum, after the referendum, before, during or after negotiations, or even before or after signing agreements
Which they later decided to break.
Which of these do you think represented the wishes of the electorate?
Say what you like about Boris, he’s far from perfect but at the end of the day, he's the only one that carried out the wishes of the majority of the electorate. Job done, we're out of Europe, he can **** off for all I care, no going back now. Let’s give all these 'experts' in the other parties a chance to shine with all their alternative views of what should be done now we're out. Perhaps you and Ellie can apply for jobs as special advisors, you both like to give the impression you are the ones who have all the answers? Actually, forget that, neither of you have a clue, you just like to whine, whine, whine.
You can’t make an omelette blah blah blah…
sPs controls
Veterinary checks at borders
Rules of origin checks
Customs declarations
Transition documents
Carnets
Loss of cabotage
Renew all EU certification
Replication of REACH
there are many more
cost to UK, over £10 billion a year.
I’m sorry to hear that, what you outline is where the primary damage of Brexit is happening.
As a member, the UK had a frictionless market of £16trillion…..and your company is a perfect example of a business that has been able to expand by tapping into that market.
Brexit trade debates always focus on tariffs - but SMEs don’t care about that - they care about the ease of being able to trade in Europe as easily as in the UK. I used to import timber and ironmongery from EU for a joinery business - it was so easy. I could email the timber company in Germany, they would send me an invoice, I paid it, net of VAT and a week later the lorry would arrive.
Mere trivialities.
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