Earth cable at gas meter.

[JohnW2]

'Junction' does not appear in the regulations. Branch pipework' may be the same but defining junction does not help.

Quite so - you typed faster than me, yet again!

What is the reason for 'before any branch pipework' and could it also apply to a joint?

Good question. If one doesn't think about it for more than a millisecond, it doesn't sound unreasonable - but the moment one does think, it becomes apparent that whatever fitting was used for a 'joint' could (e.g. if plastic) just as easily destroy electrical continuity as could a fitting which resulted in a 'branch' - so it makes little sense.

As the bond should really be before the meter it does seem somewhat unnecessary.

Indeed so - but as we've discussed so many times before, whoever wrote that bit of BS7671 does not appear to have understood that - butd, unfortunately, what (s)he did write has become 'the regs'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I only copied and pasted in order -

I think I was maybe too quick in 'believing' (without checking) the quote from the OP which you posted!!
I can't see where that quote came from. I can see nothing about the second electrician having "fitted an earth cable ... on the outlet of the meter",

No, that's what the first DID.

and then

the second electrician said that it should be connected to the outlet of the meter. Does one of us need a trip to Specsavers?

A few years back I had a Spark to install RCBO's and check the electrics. He installed all RCBO's in the CU and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter. The gas meter and electric meter are near with a gap between. He said the cable must be clamped within 600mm of the gas meter.

The copper gas pipe runs through the electric meter cupboard. He clamped the earth cable inside the electric meter at just 600mm.

Another Spark has said the earth cable has to run into the gas meter and be clamped right at the meter outlet because its has to before any "joint". The first Spark who did it said it has to be before any "junction", which means a tee. There is no tee. Running an earth cable back to the gas meter means messing up the decorations and it will look ugly on the surface.

The implication of the second is that it is bonded after a joint but it is stated that the first connected it at the meter outlet saying it has to be within 600mm.

If it is at the outlet of the meter it surely must be before anything.

 

[westie101]

Given that the regulation talks about "reasonably practicable" and "practicable"
that takes the imperative (the must) away from the regulation.

(though I tend to find that the above words tend to fly over mot peoples head)

As the customer states: -

Running an earth cable back to the gas meter means messing up the decorations and it will look ugly on the surface.

Forces the above into action so it can and should stay where it is!

 

[JohnW2]

I think I was maybe too quick in 'believing' (without checking) the quote from the OP which you posted!! I can't see where that quote came from. I can see nothing about the second electrician having "fitted an earth cable ... on the outlet of the meter",

No, that's what the first DID.

Ah, yes....

and then ...

the second electrician said that it should be connected to the outlet of the meter. Does one of us need a trip to Specsavers?

I'm still confused. If it already was connected to the outlet of the meter, why would the second one say that it 'should be' (if it already was)?

... The implication of the second is that it is bonded after a joint but it is stated that the first connected it at the meter outlet saying it has to be within 600mm. ... If it is at the outlet of the meter it surely must be before anything.

Exactly. I think we ideally need some clarification as to exactly where it was connected (and,presumably, remains connected)! However, I think we are all agreed that a 'joint' wouldn't matter, anyway. All that is important (to the regs) is that it is before any 'branch' - and that surely must be the case with any interpretation of 'at the outlet of the meter', mustn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

@ Westie - But according to the OP it is connected at the meter outlet already.

 

[JohnW2]

Given that the regulation talks about "reasonably practicable" and "practicable" that takes the imperative (the must) away from the regulation.

It does - but the "where practicable" only relates to the 600mm, not to all this nonsense about 'branch pipework'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

He installed all RCBO's in the CU and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter.

The OP said the above, i.e. to my interpretation " The copper gas pipe that is the outlet pipe from the meter"

He then said

The copper gas pipe runs through the electric meter cupboard. He clamped the earth cable inside the electric meter at just 600mm.

Which says clearly it is on this piece of pipe and within mm of the meter.

I would class the second electrician as having trouble interpreting the written word

 

[JohnHarrison]

544.1.2 The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within the 600mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

Thanks. It can be longer than 600mm. Also it is branch not joint. And not less than 10mm.