Electrical Certificate and My electrician

The building regs people are asking me to show my certificate for the work before they will sign off on the Regs.
As TTC asked - when you applied for Building Regulations approval, what did you say would be the way, or what did you by default allow them to assume would be the way, you would ensure that the electrical work complied with Part P?

This is important, as is what you then actually went and did, if that was not the same as what you told them, as it's all going to affect how much of a bind you are in with Building Control and what sort of certificate you need from the electrician.

Ok Lots of questions since I last looked here and a lot to take in.
Firstly the LABC officer asked me if an electrician was doing the work. Nothing else ! I told him yes.

I am not an electrician I do not understand some of what has been said on here about different certificates. I assumed the electrician would do whatever was needed. He didn't ! He is saying (i think) that to be able to supply a certificate he would need to pay a fee every year which as he does not do much private work he cannot justify. So he gets a mate to do it for him. I knew this from the start but he never said that I would have to pay extra. I just assumed his quote was for Parts, labour and the certification as he knew that Building control were involved.

I did not get the job done on the cheap as someone said. I knew that my nephew had a friend who was an electrician and asked if he was any good and was told he was. He was actually slightly dearer than another quote I had but went with him as he was recommended.
 
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He does not have to be a member of any organisation or scheme, for which he would have to pay a fee, in order to issue certificates.
This is completely separate from notifying Building Control which you have done.
 
He does not have to be a member of any organisation or scheme, for which he would have to pay a fee, in order to issue certificates.
This is completely separate from notifying Building Control which you have done.
I do appreciate your advice but I'm sorry I don't understand.

Are you saying that any Electrician can do domestic wiring without having to do a regular exam and pay a fee?
and that he can and should issue me a certificate for the LABC .
Or do you mean I don't need to supply a certificate to the LABC?
 
I do appreciate your advice but I'm sorry I don't understand.

Are you saying that any Electrician can do domestic wiring without having to do a regular exam and pay a fee?
Not just any Electrician but anyone.
and that he can and should issue me a certificate for the LABC .
If he is not registered with a Scheme then he cannot register the work - but he should supply you with an Electrical Installation Certificate at the very least.
If the work has been registered with the LABC then the Scheme will forward you a copy of the registration document.
Or do you mean I don't need to supply a certificate to the LABC?
If your Electrician won't or can't register the work then you will need to get someone else to test the system and register the work - no way around it I''m afraid.

Here is a link which explains in part the Part P registration requirements of one scheme:
http://www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/electrics-explained
there are others.
 
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If the electrician is compitent and already employed as such, i fail to see why he is reluctant to sign off his work to building control ? What is he afraid of ? Sadly, it is more likely he hasn't a clue as to what is required and as is usual is reliant on his more competent mate (and the expensive test kit) no doubt from his 'work' to do the tests. The initial request of £150 was probably an attempt to put you off.

I am not suggesting his work is substandard or a concern. We see evidence on this forum of electrician's who make up tests results and try to dodge responsibility. And the taxman !

Regards,

DS
 
There are two totally separate certification issues here.

ONE:

Electrical work done in the UK should comply with the Wiring Regulations, aka BS 7671. But it doesn't have to, legally, the regulations are not mandatory. Part of complying though is the issuing of a certificate showing compliance. For new work there are 2 types, an Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) and a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate (MEIWC, but often shortened to MWC - minor works certificate). For the work you described, an EIC is the appropriate one. Legally, anybody may do any electrical work, and issue BS 7671 certificates - there are no legal requirements for any qualifications, or to be a member if NICEIC, NAPIT etc. So the guy you used is legally allowed to issue an EIC and by the sounds of it he is "morally" entitled to, i.e. he is genuinely competent to do so, and would not be lying when signing this declaration:

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

The important thing to note is that he knew all along that he should issue an EIC, and unless he is a rip-off merchant who also knew all along that he was going to rip you off he should not be charging you anything for the EIC - it should be automatic - if he is complying with the Wiring Regulations issuing a certificate is not an optional extra.​

TWO:

Electrical work done in the England, Wales & Scotland must comply with the Building Regulations - there are differences between the 3 jurisdictions, but in Norfolk this is what the law makes compulsory:

screenshot_134.jpg


Again, there's no compulsion to comply with the Wiring Regulations, but in practical terms it's very difficult to prove compliance with P1 by any other route. But by the sounds of it the guy would have had no problem complying (apart from so far not having given you the EIC).​

Some electrical work is notifiable, i.e. you have to either apply for Building Regulations approval before starting, tell LABC how compliance with P1 will be achieved, and then do it that way, OR the work has to be done by someone who is allowed to self certify compliance with the Building Regulations and notify the work after the event. The guy you used cannot do the latter, and it is membership of one of the Competent Person schemes run by NICEIC, NAPIT etc that he was talking about when he said he doesn't do enough work to justify the cost of that. Which is fair enough.

What's not fair enough, BTW, is him getting a mate who is registered with one of the schemes to lie for him - it's a criminal offence and against the terms of membership of the scheme his mate is in. I'd strongly advise that you have nothing to do with any such arrangement.

As the work wasn't done by a self-certifying electrician it should have been notified in advance, and it's not clear that you actually did do that.


Firstly the LABC officer asked me if an electrician was doing the work. Nothing else ! I told him yes.
Did he by any chance ask if you were going to use a registered electrician?

If so, then that's not what you've done, and you've now got some negotiation to do with LABC, as they will probably say that they would have charged you more had they known that you weren't going to use a registered one.

If not then you've done what you said you would, and more importantly you've done what they OK'd when they gave you permission, so they should not now be quibbling.


But either way you need to get an EIC from the electrician and you should not have to pay a penny for it.
 
I do appreciate your advice but I'm sorry I don't understand.

Are you saying that any Electrician can do domestic wiring without having to do a regular exam and pay a fee?
Not just any Electrician but anyone.
and that he can and should issue me a certificate for the LABC .
If he is not registered with a Scheme then he cannot register the work - but he should supply you with an Electrical Installation Certificate at the very least.
If the work has been registered with the LABC then the Scheme will forward you a copy of the registration document.
Or do you mean I don't need to supply a certificate to the LABC?
If your Electrician won't or can't register the work then you will need to get someone else to test the system and register the work - no way around it I''m afraid.

Here is a link which explains in part the Part P registration requirements of one scheme:
http://www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/electrics-explained
there are others.
Thankyou
I will have a look and I will also ask the LABC guy.
 
Thanks to everyone who replied.
I will have to take some time tomorrow and try to absorb everything you have said.
I will probably get in touch with LABC and let them know what has happened and see what advice they give me.
I am going to ask him for the EIC and see what he says.
thank you all again.
I will update on here when I know whats going to happen.

Mike
 
If the electrician you employed is as your nephew said any good, there should be no reason why, he cannot complete an electrical installation certificate(which is what LABC are wanting). If he cannot, he is simply not an electrician. I am unsure if you have answered the question regarding whether you have applied to building controls via notification.
 
He hasn't.

Firstly the LABC officer asked me if an electrician was doing the work.
The BCO might have actually said "registered electrician". We don't know.
The BCO might not have said it, but might have meant to say it. We don't know.


I told him yes.
The BCO might have assumed that meant a registered electrician would be used. We don't know.
 
If the electrician you employed is as your nephew said any good, there should be no reason why, he cannot complete an electrical installation certificate(which is what LABC are wanting). If he cannot, he is simply not an electrician. I am unsure if you have answered the question regarding whether you have applied to building controls via notification.
I'm not sure what you mean but I have had my garage converted therefore I had to apply for Building regs. As the work has progressed I have had three visits from them in which they had a quick look and said it was all fine and left.
The work is now finished and they came back to do a final check which was all OK . He mentioned to me as he left that I should scan the 'certificate' and send that through to them and they will then issue whatever it is they issue! and all will be fine....
is that what you meant?
Mike
 
That sounds like all they want is to see the EIC, although I'd be surprised if they didn't want to assure themselves that the person who issued it had good grounds for making the declaration on it.

Since you are entitled to the EIC at no extra cost, and should have it anyway irrespective of Building Regulations completion certificates, get yours, and send them a copy.

If the electrician is reluctant to issue one, ask him why. Is it because the work he did is substandard?

If he continues to prevaricate, make it clear that friend of your nephew or not you will have no qualms about dropping him into as deep a pile of **** with his employer as you can manage.
 
It does indeed sound like the electrical work has been notified, if BCO is asking to view the EIC. You must now pursue the electrician for this, as stated before, if you is an electrician? There is absolutely no reason that he should not be able to inspect, test and certify the work, he should not be reliant on a third party to do this. You now need to start making life difficult for him, if this means inform his employer, tax office (if Cash in hand), or as I mentioned before, threaten with small claims court and legal action, as he has not proved the installation is safe I would do!
 
As everyone else has said he should provide you with an EIC there are a number of reasons why an electrician would not provide one.
1) He does not want any record that he has done the job in case the tax-man or employer finds out.
2) He has not got the test equipment required to take the measurements required which need entering on the form.

My son and I have one set of test equipment between us and we will pick it up from each other as required. I can see the problem where one does a small job and the cost of collecting the equipment in time and fuel seems OTT for a simple job like renewing a single socket for a double and we would use the cut down version EZ150 plug in tester rather than full test kit which does not give a reading but simply a set of go/no go lights. However we would never complete a job without testing.

However even if I had not tested in the main as an electrician who does this work on a regular basis I would be able to fudge up some results. It may not be ethical or correct but if I found I had missed a test or lost the fag packet with the results on I am sure I could put in figures that would be close enough to actual readings that most other testers would not realise I had not tested the actual installation.
 
Hi everyone
Well the guy had to come back to my place tonight to change a plug socket and a light switch that were faulty and he also came with all his test equipment and did the tests.
During which we were having an interesting discussion about some of the things said on this forum!
Basically he said he'd been an electrician for 12 years and everything said on here was *******s!
He said it was an EIC that he was doing for me and that I had to pay £150.00 for it.
The conversation got a Little heated but he carried on and did the tests and then when I asked him what was going to happen now he said he would get the certificate tomorrow and I could either pay him now or when I received it in the post.
I declined to pay him now but then he got a bit stroppy and said after the conversation we had just had he didn't trust me to pay him after I had the certificate.
After a few more words he said "forget it I won't do it for you now you will have to someone else to do it " and stormed off!

so I Had been holding back talking to the LABC to see what happened tonight but I suppose I'll have to have a word with them tomorrow.
 

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