Expanded ULEZ

Nobody's saying any of that stupid stuff.
Why "surely"? Do you have any figures? Which other sources do you have figures for?

A fact you need to absorb is that money, and inconvenience, DOES buy health. Are you prepared to walk everywhere to prevent all the pollutants that you car does produce, and in its manufacture?
what a rubbish argument. Missing the points totaly.

are you saying cars don't pollute ? If they don't then there is no argument. If they do, then what is best way to stop or limit the pollution. Reducing travel by taxation is 1 way. Is it the right way though ? Different argument to whether cars pollute or not.
 
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No, you're missing the point. Everything pollutes, we all know that, zero points .. The question is how much do things pollute, and is it worth doing anything about the quantity, for the cost and inconvenience, compared with other things.
If One gas boiler polluted 1,000,000,000 times as much as the same sort of pollution as cars, you wouldn't bother about the cars, would you? If all the boilers in the country caused deaths of 10 people a year, you'd probably say , well, how else could we heat our homes for fewer deaths.
If converting entirely to electric would cause only 9 deaths but cost £100bn, you'd say , sorry, it's not worth swapping.

I've said it about 3 times now in different ways, I don't see why you won't understand it.
Saying "cars pollute therefore we must stop all cars" - is obviously wrong.
SO you have to do some science and decide WHICH cars, and how, etc etc, Yes???

It's like British rail saying safety is their number one priority. No it isn't. Number 1 is to run a train service. The SAFEST thing to do is run no trains.

"You can't put a value on life", is also rubbish. If it's true, have an ambulance permanently parked in every street.

All of these arguments are the type which children have to learn are wrong in their first few years. Past about 11 you'd be put in the dunce's class.


There's also the STRAW MAN arguments which start "so you're saying...." which are puerile nonsense. Look it up.
 
No, you're missing the point. Everything pollutes, we all know that, zero points .. The question is how much do things pollute, and is it worth doing anything about the quantity, for the cost and inconvenience, compared with other things.
If One gas boiler polluted 1,000,000,000 times as much as the same sort of pollution as cars, you wouldn't bother about the cars, would you? If all the boilers in the country caused deaths of 10 people a year, you'd probably say , well, how else could we heat our homes for fewer deaths.
If converting entirely to electric would cause only 9 deaths but cost £100bn, you'd say , sorry, it's not worth swapping.

I've said it about 3 times now in different ways, I don't see why you won't understand it.
Saying "cars pollute therefore we must stop all cars" - is obviously wrong.
SO you have to do some science and decide WHICH cars, and how, etc etc, Yes???

It's like British rail saying safety is their number one priority. No it isn't. Number 1 is to run a train service. The SAFEST thing to do is run no trains.

"You can't put a value on life", is also rubbish. If it's true, have an ambulance permanently parked in every street.

All of these arguments are the type which children have to learn are wrong in their first few years. Past about 11 you'd be put in the dunce's class.


There's also the STRAW MAN arguments which start "so you're saying...." which are puerile nonsense. Look it up.
sorry (not actually) but your not worth the effort of a detailed reply.

missing the point about whether taxation to reduce car usage is the right way to address pollution.

feel free to prove how clever you are and nobody else is. I'm out
 
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sorry (not actually) but your not worth the effort of a detailed reply.
You can try, but as you've not varied from your conviction that any measure is appropriate to deal with any level of pollution. you wouldn't make any headway, you'd just get corrected again.

missing the point about whether taxation to reduce car usage is the right way to address pollution.
Well if you're towards that point you might be asked to justify that as well.
ICE engines are already taxed relative to electric ones.
How much does it reduce use?
How much reduction in old vs later cars is needed to be whatever would be significant, when
they are being taxed - £12.50 a day, not banned. So do you want different taxation, how much, where, why?

Feel free to prove how clever you are and nobody else is. I'm out
That's one of the Straw Man arguments I suggested you look them up cos it's puerile.
 
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o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O

Patio heaters????? Do you want polar bears to die??????? :ROFLMAO:
It's taken you a long time since I wrote
Soon you get to "Move your patio heaters closer so you can turn them down. That'll save the planet".
to illustrate the futility of the activity......

Polar bears are starting to eat caribou, which may prolong their survival, but they're under pressure.
 
You can try, but as you've not varied from your conviction that any measure is appropriate to deal with any level of pollution. you wouldn't make any headway, you'd just get corrected again.


Well if you're towards that point you might be asked to justify that as well.
ICE engines are already taxed relative to electric ones.
How much does it reduce use?
How much reduction in old vs later cars is needed to be whatever would be significant, when
they are being taxed - £12.50 a day, not banned. So do you want different taxation, how much, where, why?


That's one of the Straw Man arguments I suggested you look them up cos it's puerile.
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Carry on convincing yourself how clever you are.

But still missing the point. Not surprised
 
Banning wood burning and coal stoves would be more effective. But there was plenty of people complaining about merely requiring them to use dry wood. Having home inspections to check for them and making sure they're unusable is going to be a hard sell.
 
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There seems to be a consensus that they probably aren't.
I daresay we've all seen it. It might be enough to convince a child.
Under 12. DId they get those cartoons off BBC Biresize?

Yes. Which is what the ULEZ is attempting to do.
Whether they are doing it "right" I dunno.

Neither do they, because they haven't had anyone analyse it.
"How much is the cost to the community, what are the other consequences, and how much is the benefit, and what are the alternatives?". Simple questions any competent boss would want answered.
If I'd had a project mgr come to me with out that I'd have kicked his backside.
And they've told a load of porkies about the figures.

Just heard a widow friend of my wife's is saying she'll have to give up her car because it'll be too expensive, and she can't afford a newer one. She doesn't know anything about extensions. There hasn't been info advertised about that, that I've seen. SHe uses the car to get to the park with her dog, and to go shopping. Can't be many miles but 12.50 a go is too much so she's fed up. So Khan's action makes her mostly housebound. Well done mayor.
I'll get my wife to check her benefits, but if necessary sort her a car.
Grace period, 4 years:

I've said it before - HMG knows how many miles the cars do. You have to have had them for a year so apply a tax/fee, only to those which do more than X miles per year.
 
It is annoying that the press give him so much air time to spout these lies.

He cannot argue on the one hand that most vehicles are already compliant and on the other thst this scheme will save 4000 lives a year.

I think he’s been fact checked on the claim anyway.
 
The West has lost its way, it rejects God and its own culture.
Green Agenda is one of the synthetic attempts at a replacement.
Won't work.
A culture is like a tree, if the tree starts to die then you need to fix the tree.
Which you can't do if you hate what you are (wormtongue).

We are meant to save energy but, everywhere you look are cars with lights on in the daytime.
Something is taking over and letting everybody know.
This is not an economic issue.
 
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