Extract Fan Dilemma

[securespark]

I suspect that's debatable - are there any electrical parts which would be <2.25m above FFL?

Don't think so.

But I think most fan manufacturers make their fans IPX4 so can be used in Z1.

 

[JohnW2]

Don't think so.

In which case, as I said, I would think it is debatable as to whether or not your fan would be in Zone 1. I would be inclined to argue that if all the electrical parts were outside of Zone 1, then putting bits of plastic under it which did slightly protrodue nto Zone 1 should not alter the fact that the "current-using equipment" was NOT in Zone 1. However, I'm sure some would probably argue with me

But I think most fan manufacturers make their fans IPX4 so can be used in Z1.

I'm not so sure about that since, as far as regs are concerned, merely being IPX4 is, per se, enough for it to be allowed in Zone 1 - since the regs also require ("...provided it is...") the MIs say that it is suitable for Zone 1 (and, as I said, I'm not sure how common it is for MIs to actually say that). ......

701.55 Current-using equipment
.......
In zone 1, only the following fixed and permanently connected current-using equipment shall be installed, provided
it is suitable for installation in zone 1 according to the manufacturer’s instructions:
.........
(viii) Ventilation equipment

Of course, it is up to the individual to decide how strict the compliance with BS7671 needs to be!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Is that from the 18th?

 

[securespark]

In any case, if you are right, and the electrical stuff is outside Z1, even if the case might not be, then it complies.

 

[securespark]

DX150R: 6"/150mm Round Axial Extract Fan Standard | Xpelair

www.xpelair.co.uk

Have a look at the instructions of a fan I'm considering, along with the S&P. Unless I'm missing something, there is no guidance on which zones in the bathroom it should go.

 

[JohnW2]

Is that from the 18th?

Yep - Amd 2 even

 

[JohnW2]

In any case, if you are right, and the electrical stuff is outside Z1, even if the case might not be, then it complies.

True, but as I said, it is 'debatable', so I don't doubt that others might disagree with my view that your fan would (should!) qualify as 'outside zones' even if some of its plastic parts were in Zone 1. ... and I am obviously no 'authority', not even an electrician

 

[JohnW2]

DX150R: 6"/150mm Round Axial Extract Fan Standard | Xpelair

www.xpelair.co.uk

Have a look at the instructions of a fan I'm considering, along with the S&P. Unless I'm missing something, there is no guidance on which zones in the bathroom it should go.

As I said/implied, I'm not at all sure that (m)any MIs do say anything about which zones their fans are suitable for (particularly in relation to Zone 1) - and, as I have illustrated, if you want strict compliance with BS7671, you can only install a fan in Zone 1 if the MIs say that it is suitable for Zone 1.

 

[securespark]

They don't say it's suitable for any particular zone. They don't say it isn't suitable for any particular zone.

They only say "suitable for bathrooms".
AFAICT, as long as the circuit is RCD protected and the fan is rated IPX4 or better, then all is good.

A spark I know told me this earlier:

"Check that the manufacturers' instructions don't state that it isn't suitable for use in Z1."

 

[JohnW2]

They don't say it's suitable for any particular zone. They don't say it isn't suitable for any particular zone. They only say "suitable for bathrooms".

Quite - so, strictly speaking, installing it in Zone 1 would not be compliant with BS7671, since that would require the MIs to explicitly say that it is "suitable for Zone 1". Don't shoot me - I'm just the messenger

AFAICT, as long as the circuit is RCD protected and the fan is rated IPX4 or better, then all is good. A spark I know told me this earlier:

Well, that may be his/her view, and probably even a sensible view - but, as above, it's not actually what BS7671 says.

"Check that the manufacturers' instructions don't state that it isn't suitable for use in Z1."

As above, that does not help to satisfy BS7671, which says that a fan may be installed in Zone 1 provided it is suitable for installation in zone 1 according to the manufacturer’s instructions. Not saying that it is not suitable is not the same as saying that it IS suitable . The instructions presumably don't say that it is not suitable for Zone 0, either, but I would hope that you would not regard it as acceptable in Zone 0 (even if it were RCD protected and IPX4), would you?

If it were me, and my house, I would be very happy to take the view you suggest, but if the fan were in Zone 1 and the MIs did not explicitly say that it was suitable for that Zone then I would not claim or pretend that it was compliant with BS7671 (and so could not really criticise anyone who gave it a C2 in an EICR) - but I would lose absolutely no sleep over that

 

[securespark]

Have sent a "ticket" to Glen Dimplex.

Will see what they say. Personally, I think the instructions are badly written. They say it is suitable for a bathroom, that it is IPX4 rated, but don't specify suitable installation zones.

Call me old-fashioned, but I used to ring companies and talk to their technical departments, but that seems to have gone down the toilet, these days...it's all "you have to open a ticket with us"....

 

[EFLImpudence]

They say it is suitable for a bathroom, that it is IPX4 rated, but don't specify suitable installation zones.

Is stating it is suitable for a bathroom and it is IPX4 not stating that it is suitable for zone 1?

After all, needing to be IPX4 for zone 1 is only a restriction imposed by BS7671.

If the manufacturer stated that their product was suitable for a bathroom but only IPX3, then it would not be suitable for zone 1.

 

[securespark]

Well, I'm convinced, but John says that according to the good book, the instructions must explicitly state suitability for installation in Zone 1.

 

[securespark]

701.55

 

[EFLImpudence]

Well, I'm convinced, but John says that according to the good book, the instructions must explicitly state suitability for installation in Zone 1.

Yes, but my point is that it does.