F1

[joe-90]

Stop being churlish. We are talking about Mark Webber and his minor shunt.

 

[penfold46]

?

I asked you about Surtees aswell.

 

[joinerjohn]

At no time is he at risk. If you think he was - then let's hear it. Come on.

Comment on Surtees please Joe. Was he at risk.... He was killed.

Was he in a carbon fibre tub? Was there a tyre wall and run-off space?
Go waste somebody else's time.

Just so you know Joe. Surtees was driving perfectly normally. Another F2 car had crashed just ahead of him. One of the wheels of the crashed car bounded onto the track and hit him directly on his head.
F2 cars employ the same sort of construction and safety elements used in F1 cars. So the short answer is yes. Mark Webber was at extreme risk. Had his car stayed in the air a few seconds longer, or veered off to his right whilst in the air, we would now be lamenting the death of an outstanding F1 driver.
Driving cars at the speeds reached in F1 is inherently dangerous. Even with tyre walls, the sudden deceleration can cause internal injuries to various organs. Heart, liver, lungs, brain etc , as these do not decelerate at the same speed as the car or the rest of the human body.

 

[JMLanders]

the sudden deceleration can cause internal injuries to various organs. Heart, liver, lungs, brain etc , as these do not decelerate at the same speed as the car or the rest of the human body.

Totally agree.

Also, as good as these helmets are, can they really be trusted 100% (I assume joe is suggesting this high a success rate) to prevent whip-lash?

 

[penfold46]

Try being in a 2 seater F1 car. The accelaration let alone the cornering will almost rip your head from your neck. Its nowhere near racing speed aswell.

Personally, Webber tried to 'tow' too much, but at that speed you must be super-human to avoid every collision. He got it wrong.... and in all probability should be seriosly injured. He wasnt thank god, but he DID get very lucky in the same way Surtess DID NOT get lucky.

Ralph Shumi broke his back in America hitting a tyre wall... as his decelaration was over 76 G.

 

[Infidel]

When I worked as a rigger one saying stayed with me "the fall won't kill you the sudden stop at the bottom will"
I think he was decelerated rapidly by the flip and probably hit the wall at about 70 mph and in the car very survivable.

 

[JMLanders]

When I worked as a rigger one saying stayed with me "the fall won't kill you the sudden stop at the bottom will"
I think he was decelerated rapidly by the flip and probably hit the wall at about 70 mph and in the car very survivable.

I jokingly referred to the space shuttle disaster earlier. Apparently the crew weren't killed by the explosion and remained alive and strapped in until the point of impact with the water.

 

[penfold46]

When I worked as a rigger one saying stayed with me "the fall won't kill you the sudden stop at the bottom will"
I think he was decelerated rapidly by the flip and probably hit the wall at about 70 mph and in the car very survivable.

I agree. He went approx 3 meters into tyres at approx 117mph (Bearing he was at 196mph on take off). Im no mathematic, but that is some decelation and must have hurt. The car is designed to absorb that... the driver is not.

 

[Mickymoody]

For all we know Webber walked away due to the adrenalin pumping through his veins at the time, but has suffered internal injuries, that may affect him in future, if not psycological (sp), where he will back off, where he would go for it in future? Bungee jumping can cause internal injuries, detached retinas, etc, and Webber was subjected to more force than that.

I went on a road trip to the Nurburgring a few years ago, with the intention of driving my car round, but a visit to the museum there, and the roll call of dead racing drivers soon put me off the idea. My mate went round, and 10 minutes later, I got a call from him, he spun off on the 3rd corner, and wrote his car off. He was OK, his limited edition car wasn't. AND they billed him for track repair.

Don't understand the incoherent rambling of a troll in this thread, if you never lost someone in a crash, Webber was VERY lucky to walk away, don't understand that you consistently think there was no risk involved.

 

[joe-90]

The reason Webber walked away not even shook up was because the inherent safety features of the car/track did what they were supposed to do. If I had the choice of driving my car head on into a car coming the other way at 30mph or taking Webber's place in his minor flip - I'd take Webbers place any day. A head on will nearly always kill you. He was never at risk. No risk in the air, no risk hitting the tyre wall. Adrenalin doesn't come into it - he was never in danger and not injured. The PROOF is in the video.


It's not Webbers first crash. This one was much more serious. He was seriously injured.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...r-seriously-hurt/story-e6frey5r-1111118109890

 

[joinerjohn]

The reason Webber walked away not even shook up was because the inherent safety features of the car/track did what they were supposed to do. If I had the choice of driving my car head on into a car coming the other way at 30mph or taking Webber's place in his minor flip - I'd take Webbers place any day. A head on will nearly always kill you. He was never at risk. No risk in the air, no risk hitting the tyre wall. Adrenalin doesn't come into it - he was never in danger and not injured. The PROOF is in the video.

I was watching some Mr Men videos with one of my grandchildren on Sunday and can't help thinking which one you'd be Joe.

Suggestions on the back of a postcard please to :-
Mr Bump,,
aka M Webber,
c/o Red Rag Racing.
The Pits.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Hi Joe,

What do you think about my comment regarding all the danger notices at the entrances to racing circuits?
Why do you suppose they are there if there is no danger?

You seem to be making a rather shaky point based on the fact that you saw the entire incident unfold and are aware that there (fortunately) wasn't any human damage at the end of that.

If you watch the crash happen but paused the video about 2 secs after the initial impact ( maybe at a point where Webber is completely out of control, car disintegrating, airborne and upside down ) and were not aware of what happens in the following 10 secs. Would you, at that point, claim that Webber was not in any real danger.

Whilst considering your answer, try to apply the same logic to the last few active minutes of the lives of Ayrton Senna, Roland Ratzenburger, Henry Surtees.

Your point of view is similar to buying a lottery ticket, waiting with anticipation to see the outcome, then after the event finding that you have a winning ticket, claim that you knew what the numbers would be.

 

[joe-90]

Hi Joe,

What do you think about my comment regarding all the danger notices at the entrances to racing circuits?
Why do you suppose they are there if there is no danger?

We are talking about one incident - not every incident. In this particular incident he was never at risk as he never hit anything.

Just because it was spectacular doesn't make it dangerous does it?

A few months ago Massa was hit on the head by a lump of metal - it almost killed him yet no-one who was at the track would've even noticed what had happened. You've been watching too much reality TV.

 

[JMLanders]

Purely hypothetically joe. Suppose an identical or similar incident happens in the near future and the driver is maimed or killed. Would you be happy to concede that you would then be proven to be in error?

 

[joe-90]

Purely hypothetically joe. Suppose an identical or similar incident happens in the near future and the driver is maimed or killed. Would you be happy to concede that you would then be proven to be in error?

In a re-run of the accident - it would have the same result.