Fitting an outside socket for charging hybrid car

[pcaouolte]

Also interesting to me... Is the plug only rated at 10A?
View attachment 252120

The charger itself is also only rated at 10A

 

[ericmark]

This

is the bit that interests me. Does that mean it auto disconnects the earth with fault conditions?

 

[RandomGrinch]

This View attachment 252126 is the bit that interests me. Does that mean it auto disconnects the earth with fault conditions?

According to ISO:
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iec:grs:60417:6289

 

[ericmark]

Thank you, I hunted and found an instruction sheet but it says "depending on the regional current grid and the device
version." so no real answer.

But is seems

means "To indicate the function of the in-cable control and protective device (IC-CPD) with switched protective conductor for supplying electric vehicles in charging mode 2." so my worries about loss of PEN are unfounded, and all the protection required is built into the lead?

 

[RandomGrinch]

...and there are a couple of cities in Bolivia that can't charge their EV's

 

[flameport]

Regarding the RCD, even if i install the above, is there still a possibility of DC faults then

There is always the possibility of faults.
Devices which can create DC faults can't be installed downstream of a type AC RCD, as those DC faults won't be detected and can stop the RCD from working for AC faults.

The most obvious solution is to have a new circuit for the outdoor socket from a Type A RCBO, installed into the spare #4 way in the consumer unit.
20A isolator switch inside if desired, and a single unswitched socket outlet outside.

 

[Adam_151]

@ericmark

You (and others) might find this video interesting

 

[Mottie]

I didn't know you could charge a PHEV with a 13A plug.

That makes life much easier if you drive to visit someone who does not have a charging point.

My sons mate has a Tesla and they charged that from a plug socket when they went to Wales. Took about 13 hours or so.

 

[ericmark]

@Adam_151 thank you, interesting, a number of points raised.
1) Seems his car will only work in single phase, I know at work our charge points are three phase 22 kW.
2) His point about a 32 amp outlet not needing any special protection is valid, so using the three 7 kW chargers there is no PEN loss protection or 6 mA DC protection.
3) Also no linking to house power usage so one hopes it would not cause the DNO fuse to blow due to other loads.

Charging in his garage there is not real problem with loss of PEN, it would be a problem if being charged outside.

I take the attitude suicide is no longer a crime, if you want to kill yourself OK. But to put some one else in danger is another thing, but even that can be put into stages, your family can be warned, and so they should not put themselves at risk, tenants not as easy as you have no control on who is invited into the home, workers even worse as be it emergency services, milkman, postman, or social services they should be protected, but also should be adults, so should not do daft things. Once out in the street where general public can touch the car, then should be totally safe, including any trip hazard.

I had never considered people using portable 7 kW chargers, but I suppose it does not matter if 2.3 kW or 7 kW it needs the same safety features, in may case I think around 0.5 kW for my e-bike and supplied as a Class II so no earth problems, and charged in the house.

I have seen 32 amp supplies at homes, in the main for welding sets, and normally in the garage, which clearly lends its self for also being used as a vehicle charge point. Where the units shown become a problem is where the car is parked near the garage door and the lead is taken out under the door, this is exactly what I did to maintain my caravan battery, and it does mean loss of PEN is a real danger.

Only real way to remove the danger is to ban TN-C-S.

 

[Mottie]

I don't want the expense or need the speed of a proper wall-charger like an Ohme or a Zappi as we are likely moving house next year so the 3 pin outside double socket will suffice

Our outside socket, used for pressure washer/vacuum cleaner/Christmas lights is just connected to our downstairs ring main via a switched spur inside the house.

 

[shd1970]

There is always the possibility of faults.
Devices which can create DC faults can't be installed downstream of a type AC RCD, as those DC faults won't be detected and can stop the RCD from working for AC faults.

The most obvious solution is to have a new circuit for the outdoor socket from a Type A RCBO, installed into the spare #4 way in the consumer unit.
20A isolator switch inside if desired, and a single unswitched socket outlet outside.

flameport, thanks for the reply and apologies for the delay in responding

So where i'm struggling with these additional electrical requirements, is with the fact that the car was supplied with that cable as shown in my photos and If there are other considerations other than the need for just a traditional 3 pin socket, then surely consumers need to be told ?
I'm guessing that i'm one of 1000's who are likely using these granny charging cables

 

[winston1]

It is not only cars that can put DC on the mains. As far back as the 1930's radios half rectified the mains. Most TV's did this for many years as well and I guess there are still a few in use. Why were type AC RCD's ever permitted?

 

[Swwils]

There is always the possibility of faults.
Devices which can create DC faults can't be installed downstream of a type AC RCD, as those DC faults won't be detected and can stop the RCD from working for AC faults.

The most obvious solution is to have a new circuit for the outdoor socket from a Type A RCBO, installed into the spare #4 way in the consumer unit.
20A isolator switch inside if desired, and a single unswitched socket outlet outside.

This is how my ev charger is installed and it passed NICEIC site visit.

 

[shd1970]

There is always the possibility of faults.
Devices which can create DC faults can't be installed downstream of a type AC RCD, as those DC faults won't be detected and can stop the RCD from working for AC faults.

The most obvious solution is to have a new circuit for the outdoor socket from a Type A RCBO, installed into the spare #4 way in the consumer unit.
20A isolator switch inside if desired, and a single unswitched socket outlet outside.

flameport - can i ask why you specifically mention a single unswitched outlet outside please ?
Also, what size of cable would be needed for this ?
From outside socket to the consumer unit would be around 12m

Thanks again for your input

 

[flameport]

A switch is another possible point of overheating and failure. No need for it either.

2.5mm² cable would be the usual choice.