Fitting an outside socket for charging hybrid car

[ericmark]

I suppose down to a risk assessment? I made a mistake, I collected everything for a new consumer unit saw type B written on the packets for the RCBO's and thought oh that's good only expected type A, however the were type AC curve B so then I tried to get type A, but colvid intervened, so could not get type A.

So I thought about it, and decided before fitting the new consumer unit there was no RCD protection, and with a PME supply the MCB part of the RCBO would likely be good enough, had it been a TT supply would want double pole type A RCBO's but I felt the risk was low, so kept the type AC.

You have to weigh up the risk, with special thoughts to what happens when you sell?

So if you fit one of these looks the part, has a RCBO although picture shows a type AC fitted, the data sheet says 16A 30mA Type B RCBO followed by "A type B RCBO is a combination of two functions, a type B MCB and type AC RCD." and

The IET Code of Practice for Electric Vehicle Charging Equipment Installation (3rd Edition) states that mode 2 charging equipment should be protected by a
1) Type A RCD and appropriate equipment that provides disconnection of the supply in case of DC fault current above 6mA
or
2) Type B RCD
For the installation to conform to IET requirements, the appropriate RCD should be selected by the electrician and fitted at the incoming source.

So we have a device sold as a Mode 2 EV charging station which it seems will not comply?

Since a new circuit some one would need to register the work, and sign their name to some thing which they should know does not comply, and cross their fingers nothing goes wrong. You can't ignore the Part P law as your going to sell, so you need the paperwork.

So this

does not comply either, but the electrician fitting it can claim it was not an EV charging point it was just an out door socket. Even if he knows jolly well why he is fitting it. This actually worries me, as I may be the guy who touches a car which a fault has made live, as yet I know of no court cases.

But the use of thermoplastic header tanks and thermostats without a cut out when on for years until babies death and we have news that 3.5 million homes in danger. My worry is at some point it will happen with EV chargers and there will be the normal British knee jerk reaction.

So I personally would not worry too much if my car was charged back of house where only I go, I know the danger, unplug at socket before I touch car, and risk is low, but in a drive where the postman passes a little more danger, but if any part of the car can be touched by some one on the street then too much risk. But that is me, others may assess the risk different.

Where I live in Wales work in the garden is notifiable, as is a new circuit, so I would need to get a scheme member electrician to fit it, far too expansive to notify LABC. So it is not really down to me what is done, it is down to the scheme member electrician, OK if not intending to move may take a chance and DIY, but you say likely to move, so scheme member electrician is the way to go.

So all we have said is rather pointless.

 

[shd1970]

A switch is another possible point of overheating and failure. No need for it either.

2.5mm² cable would be the usual choice.

Hi flameport

Can you confirm whether if the socket was switched, whether that would be a cause for a fail if NICEIC visit please based on what you mentioned regarding the possibility of overheating/failure ?

Reason for asking is that i was looking for a more aesthetically pleasing socket as its going to be on the front of the house, something like this :

BG Decorative IP66 13A DP Switched Socket 1 Gang (toolstation.com)

Problem is, only BG seem to do the stainless steal decorative ones but only with switches

 

[flameport]

NICEIC do not create BS7671, and there is nothing that requires switches on socket outlets.
NICEIC are just one of the entirely optional organisations that electricians can belong to if they choose.

If you really want that BG item, the socket can be taken out and replaced with a different one - the fixing screws are located under the white caps on either side. It's just a standard single socket fixed into a weather resistant enclosure.

A switched socket may be fine. Or not.
Removing the switch removes that possible point of failure, and the switch would never be used anyway.

 

[shd1970]

NICEIC do not create BS7671, and there is nothing that requires switches on socket outlets.
NICEIC are just one of the entirely optional organisations that electricians can belong to if they choose.

If you really want that BG item, the socket can be taken out and replaced with a different one - the fixing screws are located under the white caps on either side. It's just a standard single socket fixed into a weather resistant enclosure.

A switched socket may be fine. Or not.
Removing the switch removes that possible point of failure, and the switch would never be used anyway.

Thanks again flameport !
I'll swap the socket for a unswitched one then

 

[flameport]

Get a BG unswitched socket as the replacement - although fixing screws are the same place for all, the outer moulding shape does vary a bit so others may not fit as well into the enclosure.

 

[shd1970]

Get a BG unswitched socket as the replacement - although fixing screws are the same place for all, the outer moulding shape does vary a bit so others may not fit as well into the enclosure.

good call.....thanks flameport


will this be ok for the inside 20A isolation switch that was recommended ?

MK Logic Plus 20A 1-Gang DP Control Switch White | Switches | Screwfix.com

If so, is there any reason why i can't be fitted into a plasterboard stud wall using one of these :

Appleby 1-Gang Dry Lining Knockout Box 35mm | Back Boxes | Screwfix.com

 

[flameport]

That's all ok.

 

[shd1970]

Just one further point of clarification flameport if i may
You mentioned early on in the thread :

Many problems:
There are no situations where a DIY electrical installation can be completed and then 'signed off' by an electrician afterwards.

Would it be acceptable for me to lay the cable and do the donkey work and capture video evidence for his review (photos under the floor) and then he simply does the work on the cable work at the CU end, the socket and the isolator and tests ?
Its going to be a faff getting floor boards up, moving bedrooms around hence my hope was to have the cable laid ready

Thanks again for your continue input....much appreciated

 

[flameport]

Probably, but you MUST get this electrician involved from the start.

If you do a load of work and then contact people to connect or finish it later, the only results will be no interest or very high prices.

 

[shd1970]

Probably, but you MUST get this electrician involved from the start.
If you do a load of work and then contact people to connect or finish it later, the only results will be no interest or very high prices.

flameport : thanks for advice, i'll be sure to check beforehand

2 further questions (apologies)

Q1 : Can you confirm if 25mm x 16mm trunking is suitable for running a single 2.5mm t&e please ?
from what i can see its perfectly find as there is a percentage of "free space" required in trunking i believe

Q2 : Would it be fine to use some 15mm PEX pipe to line the hole from inside the house to the back of the socket ?

JG Speedfit 15BPEX-41640 Push-Fit PE-X Pipe 15mm x 3m | PEX Pipe | Screwfix.com

I've seen it used on a number of youtube clips and then silicon sealed at both end to stop water ingress

on another thread but related to the same job, i was asking about keeping a 2.5mm t&e separate from a telephone feed :

2.5mm t&e and telephone cable query | DIYnot Forums

outcome was that yes they need to be kept separate due to keeping high and low voltage separate, and also to prevent noise and distortion
on the face of it, this was starting to look to be a PITA but luckily, the vertical plasterboard overboarding in my kitchen to hide 2 x 15mm pipes that i didn't think was clear to run the trunking IS completely clear from top to bottom so no jiggery pokery or convoluted wiring routed is now needed

 

[winston1]

Q1. Yes.
Q2. 15mm plumbers pipe would have an internal dia of less than 14mm which would be a tight squeeze. You don’t need anything but if you must use an off cut of 16mm oval plastic conduit.

 

[shd1970]

Q1. Yes.
Q2. 15mm plumbers pipe would have an internal dia of less than 14mm which would be a tight squeeze. You don’t need anything but if you must use an off cut of 16mm oval plastic conduit.

 

[shd1970]

Sorry for yet another question…..

where sockets are in plasterboard stud wall and approx 6 inches above the skirting board, does/should the cable be in any sort of trunking, or is it ok to just poke up through the horizontal cardboard ?

 

[winston1]

Cables in stud walls don’t need to be in trunking.

 

[shd1970]

So, my original plan to get to the CU under the floor is a no go as no easy access after getting the floor up so having a rethink

1. is it allowed to take a 2.5mm T&E cable under kitchen kick boards, simply clipped to the back wall and not in trunking ?
2. Is it ok for a 2.5mm T&E to be simply clipped to the outside of my house for approx 2m vertically, and again, does it need to be in any sort of exterior trunking ?

I really didn’t want any cables on show but I’m out of options now

TIA