Flood - tractor driver

[Munroast]

So what are we to do? Chase him down and hang him from the nearest lamppost?

shove the entire tractor up his aris - it will be a salutary lesson for all farmers

behave or you know where your tractor will be parked

 

[denso13]

there must be maliciousness which is subsequently defined as criminal recklessness.

Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. It'll all come out.

 

[motorbiking]

Or maybe he was just stupid. You'll be glad to know being stupid isn't illegal.

 

[denso13]

Or maybe he was just stupid.

Yea could be, I wont pre judge.

 

[blup]

I'm not defending him.

Driving without due care and possible civil damages claim. Irrelevant of whatever BS he came up with after the fact.

I don't think it's dangerous driving and I don't think it's criminal damage.

There is plenty of case law on causing water spray being driving without due care and I can't find a single example of dangerous driving or careless driving leading to an "accident" or damage resulting in a conviction for criminal damage (where defended/appealed).

Malice includes reckless disregard of perceived risk, which was pretty clear from the video, and confirmed by the reasonable bystanders on the forum. Over to the cps

 

[motorbiking]

Malice includes reckless disregard of perceived risk, which was pretty clear from the video, and confirmed by the reasonable bystanders on the forum. Over to the cps

"I thought the water wasn't as deep"
"I had no idea my wheels would cause such a wash"
"I didn't think driving through the street would cause more damage to already damaged property"
"I wasn't thinking as I was rushing to help a co-worker"
"with the benefit of hind sight, I realise it was stupid"

etc etc..

No malice, in any of the above.

 

[denso13]

"I knew what I was doing"
"I knew it would cause damage but didn't care"
"I knew the risks but did it anyway"

etc etc

Malice in the above

 

[Andydevon]

There seems to be a lot of posters here who don't have any experience or understanding of evidence and it's limitations in relation to offences in even magistrates never mind crown court.

 

[motorbiking]

"I knew what I was doing"
"I knew it would cause damage but didn't care"
"I knew the risks but did it anyway"

etc etc

Malice in the above

in that case he better plead guilty and then argue it was all a mistake and his conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

 

[motorbiking]

There seems to be a lot of posters here who don't have any experience or understanding of evidence and it's limitations in relation to offences in even magistrates never mind crown court.

A few magistrates struggle with that.

 

[blup]

"I thought the water wasn't as deep"
"I had no idea my wheels would cause such a wash"
"I didn't think driving through the street would cause more damage to already damaged property"
"I wasn't thinking as I was rushing to help a co-worker"
"with the benefit of hind sight, I realise it was stupid"

etc etc..

No malice, in any of the above.

Recklessness in all of the above which as you pointed out is malice. Its like trying to herd cats.

 

[motorbiking]

No I am stating the opposite.

The act refers to Recklessness, the case law says it must be criminal recklessness as it came from the Malicious Damage Act. There must be malicious intent. " I am going to do this really stupid thing, even though I think there is a real risk it will cause damage." Not, "I did something without thinking and realise now it was stupid."

It is not illegal to be stupid. We have insurance because we are sometimes stupid. We are sometimes negligent and cause damage because our standard of driving falls below that of a careful and competent driver. That is not criminal damage. That is liability and careless driving.

 

[blup]

The bloke did a really stupid thing and must have known there would be consequences, enough to let the jury to decide. If it was a asylum seeker or traveler who’d stolen the tracktor, there would be no argument. A tweed jacket is no reason not to pursue a case

 

[fillyboy]

A tweed jacket is no reason not to pursue a case

If it were a well tailored genuine Harris Tweed sports jacket, the mark of a gentleman, perhaps that should be taken into account.

 

[blup]

If it were a well tailored genuine Harris Tweed sports jacket, the mark of a gentleman, perhaps that should be taken into account.

That will be the beak