Good Idea?

[Avocet]

No objections to using the road, but something certainly needs to be done about long term obstruction of some of the roads, by parking.

I don't think VED does that in any meaningful sense, though? We've had it for many years and we still have the parking problems. All it does is hit the guy with no off-street parking but doesn't do many miles, disproportionately harder than the guy who does have off-street parking and does loads of miles.

 

[morqthana]

However, we already have a pay-per-mile system called "fuel duty". It's even better than pay-per-mile, because it automatically hits the guy with the Range Rover Sport harder than it hits the guy with the 1 litre city car, even if they both do the same number of miles. It's self-policing, and the administrative provisions are very cheap and already in place. What's not to like? About the only thing I can think of, is that it'll put the price of goods that are moved by road up a bit.

How does it work for EVs?

 

[Avocet]

How does it work for EVs?

We are trying to incentivise the uptake of EVs, are we not? We were trying to do the same with low CO2 diesels at the turn of the Millennium. I didn't see much push-back against the idea that low CO2 emitting cars paid less VED back then. Why should it be any different now?

As explained, when it comes to road maintenance, I have no problem with VED ringfenced for transport infrastructure, and I have no problem paying something towards it. There's no reason, in fact, why all three taxation systems can't co-exist - (Fuel Duty, VED and Road Pricing).

 

[morqthana]

We are trying to incentivise the uptake of EVs, are we not? We were trying to do the same with low CO2 diesels at the turn of the Millennium. I didn't see much push-back against the idea that low CO2 emitting cars paid less VED back then. Why should it be any different now?

It's different now because low CO2 diesels still burned diesel, and so still "paid per mile" via fuel duty and VAT.

EVs don't pay anything per mile (with the way electricity is currently priced), and yet they do more damage to roads because they are heavier.

By all means incentivise EV take-up with lower VED. By all means incentivise lower ICE use and more efficient EV use via fuel pricing.

But the more we successfully incentivise EV take-up the sooner we will have to deal with the fact that the govt currently raises about £30B a year from fuel duties and VAT on them, plus more from VAT on the fuel itself.

 

[JohnD]

EVs don't pay anything per mile (with the way electricity is currently priced), and yet they do more damage to roads because they are heavier.

And less damage to the health of children.

 

[Avocet]

It's different now because low CO2 diesels still burned diesel, and so still "paid per mile" via fuel duty and VAT.

EVs don't pay anything per mile (with the way electricity is currently priced), and yet they do more damage to roads because they are heavier.

By all means incentivise EV take-up with lower VED. By all means incentivise lower ICE use and more efficient EV use via fuel pricing.

But the more we successfully incentivise EV take-up the sooner we will have to deal with the fact that the govt currently raises about £30B a year from fuel duties and VAT on them, plus more from VAT on the fuel itself.

That's pretty much what I'm saying, isn't it?

 

[Brigadier]

they are heavier

My EV car is lighter than a heavier ICE car.

 

[flameport]

EVs don't pay anything per mile (with the way electricity is currently priced), and yet they do more damage to roads because they are heavier.

That is a myth circulated by the likes of the Daily Mail and other rags. Usually accompanied by other stories no one believes such as car parks collapsing.

There are certainly EVs which are obese overweight road destroyers, but that isn't true of all EVs.
Plenty of petrol and diesel cars are also obese overweight road destroyers, but not all of them.

EVs have batteries in them which are heavy - but they don't have an engine, transmission, exhaust or a big tank full of fuel.
Hybrids of course have all of the above, so they are the real road busters.

 

[Brigadier]

Hybrids of course have all of the above, so they are the real road busters.

Badly maintained ICE vehicles that leak oil, overfilled diesels that spill their fuel, and HGVs (with their 44 tonnes, and /or skidding tyres when turning) are not good for our road surfaces.