Help with a Installation Condition Report

[maccer]

Hi all.I've just paid for a condition report and it is unsatisfactory due to no RCD fitted which the electrician has put in cat 2'Potentially Dangerous'.Ive read somewhere that its a C3'improvement recommended'is this correct?because as it stands he's quoting me for a new consumer unit.Does any know the what it should be?Also a C2 for no supplementary bonding throughout what kind of job is it to sort that out?he never mentioned what was involved to resolve that.Also there was a couple other things as well such as no earth connection to two sockets which is a fair enough,and no earths to a couple of metal light fittings.Any advice on this will be greatly appreciated.
Regards.Carl

 

[ericmark]

You need to tell us the supply type. For a TT yes C3 for a TN likely C2.
With an EICR it is down to the guy doing the report. Most of us use the ESC recommendations but in my opinion after over 50 years since an earth was required for lights a sticker on the consumer unit does not really work by now it should be corrected so although the ESC may be a little tight with some recommendation they are also a bit slack with others.
Personally I liked 4 which mean it complied with previous edition but that has gone.
Down to nitty gritty if not for rent it hardly matters what coding it gets and if it is for rent then the watch my back comes in and really all t's crossed and i's dotted is the only way.
So tell us more.

 

[maccer]

Hi thanks for a quick reply.On the report says'unable to determine characteristics of the supply(sealed)

 

[EFLImpudence]

For a TT yes C3 for a TN likely C2.

Have you got that the wrong way round?

 

[Taylortwocities]

.On the report says'unable to determine characteristics of the supply(sealed)

That probably applies to the size of teh supply fuse. On that first page it will state supply type as TNC-S, TN-S or TT.

Or post a picture of your incoming supply head. Thats the bit where the supply cable comes into the house and conects to a box that has the DNO's fuse in it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, not TT, then

and it is unsatisfactory due to no RCD fitted which the electrician has put in cat 2'Potentially Dangerous'.Ive read somewhere that its a C3'improvement recommended'is this correct?because as it stands he's quoting me for a new consumer unit.Does any know the what it should be?

I would agree with C3.
The regulations are not retrospective. C2 does not mean you have to do anything.
Electricity is potentially dangerous.

Was the EICR just for your interest or (as above) is there a more pressing need to have a satisfactory certificate.

Also a C2 for no supplementary bonding throughout what kind of job is it to sort that out?he never mentioned what was involved to resolve that.

Did he do any testing to determine it was required or just look?

It involves testing between various parts in the bathroom and if required connecting them to minimise potential between them.
It cannot be determined by looking.

and no earths to a couple of metal light fittings.Any advice on this will be greatly appreciated.

Replace with plastic light fittings or a rewire?

 

[maccer]

EFL I'm not sure what testing he did as i left him to for a couple of hours.I came back and he was filling out the forms out.I'm looking to rent the house out so hence the report and some dangerous faults have been found.He mentioned about changing the lighting fittings from metal to plastic.I'll try and upload a pic of the fusebox/cu

View media item 79281

 

[maccer]

.On the report says'unable to determine characteristics of the supply(sealed)

That probably applies to the size of teh supply fuse. On that first page it will state supply type as TNC-S, TN-S or TT.

Or post a picture of your incoming supply head. Thats the bit where the supply cable comes into the house and conects to a box that has the DNO's fuse in it.

ive just been through the report and there is no mention to supply type.I'll post a picture tomorrow of it,Many thanks.

 

[RF Lighting]

Can you post a photo of the main incomming supply & meter.

Whilst there's nothing actually wrong with your old fuseboxes, they are getting to the age where they are ready for replacement, and something safer could replace them.

Also have a read of this document. It gives a guide to how non conforming items should be coded on EICRs


http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100126678/best-Practice-Guide-4.pdf

 

[maccer]

Can you post a photo of the main incomming supply & meter.

Whilst there's nothing actually wrong with your old fuseboxes, they are getting to the age where they are ready for replacement, and something safer could replace them.

Also have a read of this document. It gives a guide to how non conforming items should be coded on EICRs


http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100126678/best-Practice-Guide-4.pdf[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that.It says within that info that wired fuseboxe's are satisfactory.Why on my report is it deemed C2 potentially dangerous because there is no RCD protection which the old fusebox dosen't have.

 

[Adam_151]

Are there any sockets which could reasonably be expected to be used for leads running outside?

 

[maccer]

Are there any sockets which could reasonably be expected to be used for leads running outside?

I guess sockets in kitchen could be used for that.

 

[Adam_151]

In that case look under the code C2 section of the document you were linked to and you will see

Absence of RCD protection for portable or
mobile equipment that may reasonably be
expected to be used outdoors

From that picture I'd give a code C2 to the lack of the spark cover on the RHS board as well... look on the inside of such a cover after a fuse has operated and you will see a black mark from the fuse wire remains that are expelled from the ends of the tube that the fuse wire runs through, cover missing and it is free to land on the carpet!

LHS board looks like it has a 45A main switch (correct me if wrong) and 2 no 30A circuits... possible overloading issue... if they are lightly loaded socket circuits perhaps not an issue, but more serious if 2 showers.

The end of the day, I an speak for most electricians on the forum, is that we wouldn't think of letting the place out without a board change, however we would quite happily live with that arrangement ourselves

 

[ericmark]

The Electrical Safety Council do a Best Practice Guide which seems to be what most electricians follow when giving a code.

I am not sure I totally agree with the guide to me multi way adaptors and wandering leads are outside the remit when doing an installation inspection and test they are part of the in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment often referred to as PAT testing.

However if we are to include plugged in devices then we should include those which improve the installation as well as cause danger.

The main thing which has improved safety must be the earth leakage current braker (ELCB as was now called RCD) and the regulations have in stages required their use. At first it was just where we relied on an earth rod, then for out door items and finally nearly all sockets and cable in the wall.

Clearly to protect the cable in the wall means RCD fitted at the fuse box but for most other uses we can use the plug in type which come in a number of flavours most are 30mA and can be active (with power cut they switch off and need resetting) or passive (will stay switched on in a power cut) so if this

plugs

• ericmark
• 4 Jul 2014
• 1

is a fail then these

will help it pass can't really have it both ways.

Personally I feel items which can be removed or fitted without the use of a tool are beyond the remit for a EICR however there is no question using the simple plug in devices will protect you in the same way as permanently installed devices except for when knocking nails in the wall or drilling a wall.

So question do you just want to make house safe or do you need an EICR which shows it is safe? If one has 30 sockets then £250 for plug in RCD's likely more expensive than having a new consumer unit. But used where there is added danger for example lawn mower then would seem worth while.

We have two types of supply TT and TN with a TN supply the earth is given to you by the supplier and any line wire touching earth would cause a fuse to blow. With a TT supply an earth rod is used and so less current can flow so a line wire touching earth may no cause a fuse to blow. So with a TT supply the RCD or ELCB what ever name you want to give the device is really important. This is why we asked for pictures of the in coming supply.

The TN is further divided into TN-S and TN-C-S and it is some times hard to work out which but between TT and TN there should be no problem and it should be noted on the EICR. He should have measured Ze and also entered that on the report and from that reading he would have got a really good idea of supply type. Below 0.35Ω likely TN-C-S below 0.8Ω then TN-S and above that TT. Ze is also called Earth Loop impedance but I have used Ze as that is how it likely appears on the report.