Hot Air

[Notch7]

That argument cannot be made today. Over a prolonged period, not just since the arrival of Covid-19, the EU’s economic performance has been woeful.

Fifteen years ago, the US and EU economies were of a similar size; today America’s is a third bigger. Fluctuations in exchange rates account for some of the difference, but the US is at the cutting edge of the fourth industrial revolution and the EU is not...In 2000, the EU had a 25% share in the semiconductor market: today it is 8%. The US and China are streets ahead of Europe in the development of artificial intelligence.

A number of factors are to blame for the EU’s economic woes

What a load of tosh

USA has the worst levels of wealth distribution compared to other major economies.

Just because USA has a greater gdp means nothing, the gdp doesn’t translate into better standard of living for the general public, it just means there are a bunch of obscenely rich billionaires.


In any case the EU is the UKs biggest trade partner, sluggish economy is not a justification for Brexit.

 

[Notch7]

Brexit provided opportunities to do things differently but those opportunities have so far not been exploited

UK had plenty of opportunity to do things differently whilst it was an EU member.

 

[Vinty]

The EU can grow by increasing its number of members

The EU can't expand much further east without the danger of further conflict.
The EUs expansion into Eastern Europe has already caused economic hardship and war.

 

[noseall]

The EU can't expand much further east without the danger of further conflict.
The EUs expansion into Eastern Europe has already caused economic hardship and war.

You mean NATO?

European nations have neighboured Russia since armies were invented, lol..

 

[Odds]

You've been had by the word superstate. As you've proved you can't explain it.

Every country will stay independent, but have the benefits of being a group.

You do have an obsession with 'proving' an item of discussion - it's not a scientific theory.
It's in European interests to integrate nations states into a more coherent political union.
It didn't look likely the UK would consider withdrawal from the EU twenty years ago; yet here we are.

The Federal Trust

The idea of federalism has long been misunderstood, if not vilified in our country. It was presented as a centralising and dominating force from abroad. However, for nearly 400 years federalism has sought to combine the efficient governance of public goods with the diverse plurality of local traditions and cultures. Federalism supports national identities. It is an idea that could give new meaning to the UK’s relations with Europe.

 

[Notch7]

The EUs expansion into Eastern Europe has already caused economic hardship and war

The war in Ukraine is due entirely to Putins imperialist ambitions.

stop framing Putin as the victim


Your never ending quest to frame EU negatively is pathetic.

 

[Notch7]

You do have an obsession with 'proving' an item of discussion - it's not a scientific theory

When posts include opinions stated as fact, such as this:

“It's in European interests to integrate nations states into a more coherent political union”

It is perfectly reasonable in a debate to ask for evidence.

It didn't look likely the UK would consider withdrawal from the EU twenty years ago; yet here we are

This is an indirect way of claiming Brexit is evidence EU is becoming a federal state.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You do have an obsession with 'proving' an item of discussion - it's not a scientific theory.
It's in European interests to integrate nations states into a more coherent political union.
It didn't look likely the UK would consider withdrawal from the EU twenty years ago; yet here we are.

The Federal Trust

The idea of federalism has long been misunderstood, if not vilified in our country. It was presented as a centralising and dominating force from abroad. However, for nearly 400 years federalism has sought to combine the efficient governance of public goods with the diverse plurality of local traditions and cultures. Federalism supports national identities. It is an idea that could give new meaning to the UK’s relations with Europe.

It's you that used an expression that you couldn't explain.

Brexit was based on misunderstandings.

Superstate means different things to different people. You still haven't explained what you think it means, but you're happy to claim it will happen.

 

[robinbanks]

You do have an obsession with 'proving' an item of discussion - it's not a scientific theory.
It's in European interests to integrate nations states into a more coherent political union.

Keeping it contextual to the thread, if you're going to state your honest opinion you also need to present the verifiable facts from which it derives, i.e. proving it

 

[Odds]

When posts include opinions stated as fact, such as this:

“It's in European interests to integrate nations states into a more coherent political union”

It is perfectly reasonable in a debate to ask for evidence.


This is an indirect way of claiming Brexit is evidence EU is becoming a federal state.

For the European Union to survive it must evolve and grow or stagnate and, eventually die.
If it's in their interests to maintain this union Nation states will continue to do so.
Angela Merkel encouraged Russian integration with the EU for economic and political stability in order to reduce the military threat at the Eastern borders. This clearly did not suit American interests who saw the EU as a trade competitor, so they formented political disorder in Ukraine to break the Russian states acceptance into the EU - it's been a long term aim of the Russian state for acceptance into European affairs going all the way back to Peter the Great.
The EU is already Federalised to an extent with a central government in Brussels where Nations have the opportunity to debate issues and even take charge for six months at a time, more along the lines of a socialised Confedracy rather than the singular governance in America but the common aim is the same.

 

[Odds]

Keeping it contextual to the thread, if you're going to state your honest opinion you also need to present the verifiable facts from which it derives, i.e. proving it

My personal opinion has already been stated on several occasions: at the time i voted to remain in the EU it made common sense. Times change. Twenty years from now it could appear the vote to leave the EU was a good one. It won't 'prove' a damn thing.

 

[Notch7]

For the European Union to survive it must evolve and grow or stagnate and, eventually die

I don’t follow that argument, it seems like a non sequitur to me.

the European Union is made up of 27 different countries all with their own political system and their own free market economies.

the success of the EU dependent on the success of the 27 countries and their ability to grow their economy.


your basic argument is this: the EU has to keep changing to survive and therefore it must become a federal state….there are plenty other ways to evolve

The EU is already Federalised to an extent with a central government in Brussels

The EU does not have a central government.

so they formented political disorder in Ukraine

That is untrue.

Please don’t start claiming USA caused the coup in 2014, I’ve heard the false Nuland quote too many times.

Putin invaded Ukraine because he wanted to expand his empire, that’s it.

 

[Notch7]

My personal opinion has already been stated on several occasions: at the time i voted to remain in the EU it made common sense. Times change. Twenty years from now it could appear the vote to leave the EU was a good one. It won't 'prove' a damn thing.

The problem is that you are stating your personal opinion as fact.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The problem is that you are stating your personal opinion as fact.

This. Not the only 1

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You do have an obsession with 'proving' an item of discussion - it's not a scientific theory.
It's in European interests to integrate nations states into a more coherent political union.
It didn't look likely the UK would consider withdrawal from the EU twenty years ago; yet here we are.

The Federal Trust

The idea of federalism has long been misunderstood, if not vilified in our country. It was presented as a centralising and dominating force from abroad. However, for nearly 400 years federalism has sought to combine the efficient governance of public goods with the diverse plurality of local traditions and cultures. Federalism supports national identities. It is an idea that could give new meaning to the UK’s relations with Europe.

From your own link..

For over 75 years, the Federal Trust has studied the interactions between regional, national, European, and global levels of government. It has nurtured a particular interest in the European Union and Britain’s place in it. We have warned that Brexit could seriously damage Britain’s prosperity and standing in the world. Unfortunately, there is increasing evidence that these fears were justified.

The price people are paying for Brexit is too high. Prohibiting the free movement of goods and labour has rigidified the economy, caused supply chains to collapse, increased financial difficulties for British universities and research institutes, and made consumers worse off. It is threatening the cohesion of the United Kingdom and has created new conflicts in Northern Ireland. At a time when China aims to be the new superpower in the world, Britain has raised its voice for the defence of human rights, but it has no leverage to protect victims of abuse. As an EU member, it would be far easier to address and resolve these issues. A new approach to determining the UK’s relations with Europe is required.