House wife's father now blames the UK

[sodthisforfun]

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So the context was firmly established. The issue being discussed was that of the problems/risks of sending people to the camp to bring Shamima Begum and her baby back to the UK. Bod raised that concern and jason pointed out that a newspaper reporter had managed to get in and out

And it was at that point that you wrote:

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So no, chalk and cheese were not being compared.

A newspaper reporter and hypothetical people sent to bring Shamima Begum and her baby back to the UK were being compared.

The reporter had a passport, and anybody sent to bring Shamima Begum and her baby back to the UK would have a passport.

The reporter did not belong to a terrorist group, and nobody sent to bring Shamima Begum and her baby back to the UK would have belonged to one.

So what did you think was being compared when you quoted a post about a reporter and wrote what you did about him having a passport etc?

SHE didn't have a passport. That was what I was talking about. A passport is what enabled the journo to travel with freely. The mother and the baby did NOT have passports. Babies need passports.
Journo with passport not a member of a terrorist group = travel freely to the UK.
Woman & baby without passports with woman a member of a terrorist group = not able to travel freely to the UK.

Chalk and cheese.

How are they supposed to quickly leave a country? Bearing in mind, we are not talking about a lady who simply lost her passport on holiday, this was a lady who belonged to a terrorist group in a country that is in disarray, these are not normal, easy to sort out circumstances. There are barely any hospitals left standing, there is no functioning UK embassy in Syria. As I said before again and will say again, it was not a simple task and the likelyhood of sorting it all out within 2 weeks were slim.

 

[sodthisforfun]

But instead we let an innocent baby die !

We didn't.

Are we also to blame for the deaths of her other 2 children?

 

[sodthisforfun]

1. Who do you think would have prevented her from leaving the camp or the country whilst being escorted by representatives of the UK government and (quite possibly) security forces?
2. Who do you think would have prevented her from entering the UK when she arrived here escorted by representatives of the UK government and (quite possibly) security forces?

She isn't a UK citizen. Her baby is. It's not a deal she had to make, that her son must return with her. Home secretary said the baby would've been given help had the mother given permission.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Got any proof to back up that allegation?

Or do you think you are so special that it's OK for you to make allegations like that even though you know they are untrue?

Oh you do have selective memory and a great way with words - just like Himmy. You the same person?

 

[noseall]

Are we also to blame for the deaths of her other 2 children?

We?

Did she plead with the relevant UK authorities expressing her desire for them to be brought to the UK?

 

[jasonzyx]

Her baby is. It's not a deal she had to make, that her son must return with her. Home secretary said the baby would've been given help had the mother given permission.

Did the Home Sec. say that?
Was that communicated o the mother, or just reported in the DM?
Did the Mother withhold permission?
If there wasn't a deal that she had to make, your comments appear to be contradictory.
No passport was required for local hospital or medical treatment.
Were the local hospitals barely left standing? Or were they sufficiently functioning to administer antibiotics to a baby?
A couple of weeks old baby travelling with British officials could be transported on the say so of the British authorities.
A temporary emergency passport can be issued within hours. How do mothers and babies travel after their children are born while abroad?
Two weeks was not needed for transport to the local hospital. It was one hour away.

You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions in order to support your argument.

 

[Notch7]

Did the Home Sec. say that?
Was that communicated o the mother, or just reported in the DM?
Did the Mother withhold permission?
If there wasn't a deal that she had to make, your comments appear to be contradictory.
No passport was required for local hospital or medical treatment.
Were the local hospitals barely left standing? Or were they sufficiently functioning to administer antibiotics to a baby?
A couple of weeks old baby travelling with British officials could be transported on the say so of the British authorities.
A temporary emergency passport can be issued within hours. How do mothers and babies travel after their children are born while abroad?
Two weeks was not needed for transport to the local hospital. It was one hour away.

You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions in order to support your argument.

The mother didnt give consent.

It seems you are advocating British authorities snatching babies.

 

[motorbiking]

This isn't about visa and passports. Its about the risk a UK official would face should he enter the country to collect the child. Journalists can get in because it suits those in power locally to show how callous the West is. A UK official would face serious risk of kidnap.

 

[jasonzyx]

Lets face it, the parents would and certainly should've had a better idea of what that kid was watching, thinking, feeling. That is their job, much more so that Javid. Why didn't they report her to the authorities before it all got out of hand?

It is completely unreasonable to blame the fact this kid decided to join a terrorist group on the UK. She wasn't on the radar - perhaps if her parents had reported her, then things may have been different.

According to notch she was.

Certainly the UK knew about this girl but did not take safeguarding steps -for example not warning the parents.

 

[jasonzyx]

Did the Home Sec. say that?
[Home secretary said the baby would've been given help had the mother given permission.
[Was this prior to or after the event?]
Was that communicated o the mother, or just reported in the DM?
Did the Mother withhold permission?
If there wasn't a deal that she had to make, your comments appear to be contradictory.

The mother didnt give consent.

You seem to have skipped a few questions.

 

[jasonzyx]

This isn't about visa and passports. Its about the risk a UK official would face should he enter the country to collect the child. Journalists can get in because it suits those in power locally to show how callous the West is. A UK official would face serious risk of kidnap.

In a camp run by Kurdish allies?
There must be camp guards. I'm sure they would allow security accompanying officials in order to lose one more inmate, when they want to be rid of them all.

 

[motorbiking]

Yes it must be very difficult for people to carry out suicide bombings and murders where there are guards. e.g. Prisons, airports, train stations, pop concerts, hotels, military camps.

If you were a FO representative, would you put your hand up?

 

[Mottie]

This is all going to repeat itself in 10 months time when she drops another sprog.

 

[Notch7]

According to notch she was

not according to me, I heard from the police chief that was investigating at the time.

But I expect thousands of others were also on the radar.

 

[jasonzyx]

not according to me,

It looks like you, it sounds like you, it was you!

Certainly the UK knew about this girl but did not take safeguarding steps -for example not warning the parents.