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[Harry Bloomfield]

One wouldn't - but, as I've said, if the road is very quiet, then it does not really matter 'who does what', does it?

I've just come in for a warm, switched the TV on, an it's one of those traffic police shows. Driver trundling along the otherwise empty motorway, in the middle lane, traffic car pulls in behind, and gives him 3 points, plus I think was said - £100 fine. No, it doesn't inconvenience anyone, but the rule, even on an empty motorway, is to stay in L1, unless...

 

[morqthana]

If it's a "should" rather than a "must", then does anybody know what RTA contravention was he guilty of?

 

[morqthana]

Sorry, I can't be bothered to read all that, or to discuss this any more, you've bludgeoned me into submission. All I wanted to say is that middle lane hogging happens, regularly. Chalk it up as a win if you like, but I'm out of here.

I wasn't trying to bludgeon anyone into submission - just trying to inject reality into the discussion.

Because it's entirely possible that you are one of those who simply doesn't realise that gaps to move into very often need to be several hundred metres long. You might be one of those who sees a driver in front of you in L2, sees a gap in L1 which is 250m long, say, and brands that driver a lane hog because he doesn't move into it.

 

[JohnW2]

I've just come in for a warm, switched the TV on, an it's one of those traffic police shows. Driver trundling along the otherwise empty motorway, in the middle lane, traffic car pulls in behind, and gives him 3 points, plus I think was said - £100 fine. No, it doesn't inconvenience anyone, but the rule, even on an empty motorway, is to stay in L1, unless...

Very odd, because ....

If it's a "should" rather than a "must", then does anybody know what RTA contravention was he guilty of?

... that was also my first reaction to what you described. Was the fine/points perhaps for "driving without due care" or something like that - an offence which has always worried me, since is is so much down to the opinion and discretion of individual police officers.

If the story is true, it's an example of one of those situations which gives the police a bad name and undermines donfidence in, and respect for, them. As you say, if the motorway was 'otherwise empty', driving in the middle lane would obviously impact no-one in any way, other than Mr Jobsworth.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If the story is true, it's an example of one of those situations which gives the police a bad name and undermines donfidence in, and respect for, them. As you say, if the motorway was 'otherwise empty', driving in the middle lane would obviously impact no-one in any way, other than Mr Jobsworth.

Anyone who habitually does it on an empty road, might well drive the same on a busy road, but why would anyone - even on an empty road, drive in L2 by default?

 

[JohnW2]

Because it's entirely possible that you are one of those who simply doesn't realise that gaps to move into very often need to be several hundred metres long. You might be one of those who sees a driver in front of you in L2, sees a gap in L1 which is 250m long, say, and brands that driver a lane hog because he doesn't move into it.

Yes, those are possibilities. However, as another possibility, if he's anything like some people I know, maybe he regards it more important to "obey the slogan" than to drive safely in accordance with the Highway Code.

I seriously doubt that, other than when a motorway is very quiet (in which case this whole discussion becomes pretty moot), one will see a significant number (if any) of 4 second gaps between vehicles in L1 -and, indeed, it would probably need to be at least 5 seconds, since it would be very difficult to exactly identify the mid-point of a 4 second gap.

 

[JohnW2]

Anyone who habitually does it on an empty road, might well drive the same on a busy road,

There';s something which doesn't sound quite right (or sensible) with applying a penalty on the basis of guesswork/speculation.

but why would anyone - even on an empty road, drive in L2 by default?

I suppose the obvious question in response to that is "why not?"

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

There';s something which doesn't sound quite right (or sensible) with applying a penalty on the basis of guesswork/speculation.

So then, it's just fine to ignore a red traffic light, because it's the middle of the night, because you are sure there is no cross traffic using the green?

 

[JohnW2]

So then, it's just fine to ignore a red traffic light, because it's the middle of the night, because you are sure there is no cross traffic using the green?

You seem to be struggling to find a way of continuing to argue

Some might well argue as you have suggested (and I might even have done it myself in my time), but you can surely see that they are totally different situations, can't you - unless, that is, you can explain (hopefully without scraping barrels too deeply!!) how travelling in the middle lane of an empty motorway can possibly 'go wrong' in a fashion that causes harm to come to somebody or some thing??

It can, however, sometimes get silly. A friend of mine once got a ticket for exceeding the short bit of 20 mph limit in front of some school gates - despite the fact that it was in the middle of the night and during school Summer holidays

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It can, however, sometimes get silly. A friend of mine once got a ticket for exceeding the short bit of 20 mph limit in front of some school gates - despite the fact that it was in the middle of the night and during school Summer holidays

Thanks, you have made my point for me. Rules cannot be switched on and off. Lane hogging, is lane hogging, whether you do it in the middle of the day, or the middle of the night - though I doubt you would find a quiet motorway, in modern Britain, no matter what the time - to practice your lane hogging.

 

[morqthana]

an offence which has always worried me, since is is so much down to the opinion and discretion of individual police officers.

Yes. We couldn't have that, could we. Imagine if people could face significant prison sentences if a policeman decided that in his opinion they were making too much noise during a demonstration.

 

[morqthana]

Yes, those are possibilities. However, as another possibility, if he's anything like some people I know, maybe he regards it more important to "obey the slogan" than to drive safely in accordance with the Highway Code.

You should see how diametrically opposed some people are on the issue of when to move out of a lane which has been flagged as disappearing ahead, e.g. coned off for road works, when traffic is stop-start.

Some think you should move over in "plenty of time", which they often define as "as soon as you pass the first sign warning of the restriction a mile+ ahead"

Others prefer to go with the Highway Code advice, which is that traffic should use all the lanes right up to the restriction and merge-in-turn.

The first group will often castigate the second for "jumping the queue". I've seen drivers pull out to straddle both lanes to block the progress of vehicles they've spotted in their mirrors. (Which I'm pretty sure is an offence). When told what the HC says they reject it.

I also saw a video on YT a few weeks ago where an unmarked police car pulled out of the "in plenty of time" lane and chased and stopped a driver who'd driven as far as he could in the other lane (overtaking the police car in the process) because he didn't think it was right.

The other car was a Tesla, so it had not just dashcam footage but side and rear as well, but re your earlier post I wonder what "opinion" the driver would have been subjected to without any video evidence.

 

[morqthana]

Lane hogging, is lane hogging, whether you do it in the middle of the day, or the middle of the night.

But I wonder if it is actually an offence.

Just answered my own question: https://nationalhighways.co.uk/new-...and-tailgaters-to-change-their-driving-style/

[ADVISORY - the article contains the abysmally ignorant term "undertaking" to mean "overtaking on the left".]

It's worrying that it's categorised along with driving too close - that can cause death, but "lane-hogging" can't. One hopes that, outside of really obviously empty lanes (which should just get the driver a warning, IMO, along with the "punishment" of being delayed for a while for vehicle, licence, insurance etc checks), the police have robust evidence for how busy the lane to the left was, and can justify a reasonable view of whether the driver had reasonable time to move over.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But I wonder if it is actually an offence.

It certainly is, it is 'careless driving'.

And I would feel, especially on a two lane road, of under-taking such a lane hogger, having given such a driver adequate warning of my approach, but I would also carefully choose my moment to undertake - a slip road to my left, or similar means of escape, no bicycles, pedestrians or etc. around, no one at risk, if it all goes wrong. In the incident I mentioned earlier, there was a no one else about, and an empty dual slip-road on my left, to resort to, should I need it.

 

[morqthana]

Sorry, Harry - it doesn't matter how you dress it up, overtaking on the left can be classed as dangerous driving. What you are describing is a long way removed from slow-moving traffic on a multi-lane road, or another driver slowing to turn right.

Try reading this: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/

What you are describing doing makes you no better than the person you're overtaking. It does not make you morally superior to them.

And it sure as hell does not make you a better driver than them.