How Wireless EV Charging Works

[Harry Bloomfield]

However, what I generally will not do is move into L1 if I can 'see' (at any distance, so perhaps giving my personal answer to the 'how short?' question) a vehicle which I will probably want to overtake when I get to it (i.e. seeming travelling slower than I want to travel)

There, is where we differ - if L1 is clear, then I will make use of it, irrespective of my speed, providing I wouldn't need to move in, then have to immediately move back out. Sitting in L2, even when doing the 70 limit, causes bunching and congestion, for those behind, trying to use the road. It's none of your business, if other drivers choose to ignore the 70 limit, and do more.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Indeed. However (and I doubt that I am alone), one thing I have come to realise is that, although I'm generally totally unaware of it, the extent to which I can turn my head/neck 'to look over my shoulder' has progressively (but without being generally noticed) decreased with the progression of "old age". I'm most aware of that when driving and having to deal with an 'oblique' junction, when I struggle to turn my head enough to see what is about to hit me (and mirrors don't really help in that situation!) !

I have similar problems. No problem with a quick over the shoulder glance, but holding my head at such an angle for long, becomes painful, and I find it particularly hard, when it's busy at a T junction, looking left, right, left, right.

 

[ericmark]

Oh that brings back memories, Bedford TM three axle wagon used to learn to drive and take my HGV test, three in the cab, so the learners took turns driving, with the instructor giving his instructions of course.

So instruction at the junction ahead turn right, so carefully use mirrors, right hand indicator, and in right hand lane, to be yelled at "straggle the two lanes you will never get this around if in right hand lane." so then next junction, same instruction turn right, so this time straggled to two lanes. So again yelled at "Why are you straggling both lanes, you have plenty of room at this junction" seemed I could not win.

Anyway I passed the test, but the medicals were so expensive I let it go, today can't even drive a large tractor, larger stuff removed from licence when I reached 70.

However we have had trams and trolley buses both could take power from overhead lines, and they were tall enough so the lines did not affect other traffic, seems Australia has vehicles that run on rails in the town and road in the country, and they lend themselves to combining overhead supply and battery, before we worry about cars, what about returning to the tram and trolley bus? And clearly the government has no real desire to go electric, as we still have not completed the electrification of the railways, and EV's are going to have to pay car tax in April, so they are just giving lip service to idea of EV's, also they have changed the rules on EV chargers so that many are now becoming vehicle make only, so Vauxhall will not be able to use Porsche charging points. Seems they have to take a standard credit card if for all makes, but not for just one make, idea was to get rid of all the apps one needed, but the result is less places to charge the car.

 

[JohnW2]

There, is where we differ - if L1 is clear, then I will make use of it, irrespective of my speed, providing I wouldn't need to move in, then have to immediately move back out.

Aren't we saying essentially the same thing, the only difference perhaps being what you regard as 'immediately'?

As I implied, if L1 is clear ("as far as I can see") of vehicles that (to maintain my desired speed) I would probably have to move back into L2 to pass, then I will move (from L2) into L1. From what you say about 'immediately', I can but presume that you are saying that you would return to L1 even if you could see something that would cause you to move back into L2 'fairly soon' (something which I normally would not do) - is that correct ?

 

[JohnW2]

I have similar problems. No problem with a quick over the shoulder glance, but holding my head at such an angle for long, becomes painful, and I find it particularly hard, when it's busy at a T junction, looking left, right, left, right.

Interesting. Absolutely no symptoms in my case - no pain or even discomfort, just an inability to turn my head/neck as far around as I would like (and once could do)!

 

[morqthana]

I was referring to morqthana wanting figures for times and distances, and (in my view) over-analysing it.

I'm not "over-analysing" it - I'm simply presenting the mathematical inevitabilities of how long a gap MUST be for given speeds, relative speeds, and the figure for how short a time people think it reasonable for another driver to be able to remain in the lane to his left before having to move out again. In the complete absence of any suggestions from anybody, I used a figure of 30s in my examples.

Anyone who wants to use a different figure can run the calculations - it's not hard.

I'm not suggesting that people fit laser range-finders to their cars, but it would be good if people could take on board the basic concept, because my experience is that the vast majority of drivers DHAFC how big a gap to leave in between them and the next guy, and will also force their ignorance onto people they pull in front of after overtaking.

So here's a fun exercise, which I agree is unrealistic, not least because at the speeds involved you could in practice argue it was OK to shave a bit off the gap between you and the car you were pulling in front of, but ignoring that - the road is wet, you are doing 150mph overtaking traffic doing 50mph.

What length of gap do you need to have to pull into if you want to be able to remain there for 30s?

The answer is in the spoiler - it's up to you whether you just look at it, or work it out for yourself.

Spoiler: ANSWER

Just over 1 mile

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I can but presume that you are saying that you would return to L1 even if you could see something that would cause you to move back into L2 'fairly soon' (something which I normally would not do) - is that correct ?

It's all relative. If the road is busy, then I tend to be more willing to move to L1, obviously if there is just me and the vehicle I am overtaking then, there is no hurry at all.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

However we have had trams and trolley buses both could take power from overhead lines, and they were tall enough so the lines did not affect other traffic, seems Australia has vehicles that run on rails in the town and road in the country, and they lend themselves to combining overhead supply and battery, before we worry about cars, what about returning to the tram and trolley bus? And clearly the government has no real desire to go electric, as we still have not completed the electrification of the railways, and EV's are going to have to pay car tax in April, so they are just giving lip service to idea of EV's, also they have changed the rules on EV chargers so that many are now becoming vehicle make only, so Vauxhall will not be able to use Porsche charging points. Seems they have to take a standard credit card if for all makes, but not for just one make, idea was to get rid of all the apps one needed, but the result is less places to charge the car.

You do know, that is at odds with Avocet's view of the wonderful EV world, don't you?

 

[JohnW2]

It's all relative. If the road is busy, then I tend to be more willing to move to L1, obviously if there is just me and the vehicle I am overtaking then, there is no hurry at all.

Sure, and opinions/practices will obviously vary a lot. I've explained what I generally do, essentially 'subconsciously ... having moved,say, from L1 to L2 to 'overtake' something, I generally won't return to L1 so long as I can 'see' other vehicles in L1 that I would quite probably cause me to move back into L2 to overtake it. ... so, for me that 'short distance', the length of which was debated earlier in this thread, is probably usually "as far as UI can see".

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

inability to turn my head/neck as far around as I would like

Worth considering regular neck exercises. I certainly find them a benefit.

 

[JohnW2]

Worth considering regular neck exercises. I certainly find them a benefit.

You're undoubtedly right, but it's probably not something I'd be likely to ever remember to do since, as I've said, I'm totally unaware of this (I presume age-related) reduction in range of movement other than in a few situations when driving!

 

[morqthana]

I was referring to morqthana wanting figures for times and distances, and (in my view) over-analysing it.

Correct! Only a fool would get a tape measure out, when the need is to assess a safe distance or do an emergency stop.

Except I didn't suggest getting a tape measure out, did I.

And as for wanting times, when I asked fixitflav who shouldn't use the middle lane of motorways, his exact reply was "Anybody who isn't overtaking a slower vehicle, or will need to in a short time" (I've highlighted the crucial part).

That's a perfectly reasonable position, and I'm sure it's shared almost universally. But the length of that "short time" is crucial, because that affects whether someone regards another driver as a lane-hog or not. But whatever time his rule-of-thumb is, that leads, absolutely inevitably, to a minimum gap which must be there if that driver is to move across safely.

The point is, to get the idea into new driver's heads, that vehicles do not and cannot instantly stop dead. As you become more experienced, the sensible amongst us appreciate that leaving a proper gap, both saves fuel, is much safer, and costs you no extra time.

The point of what I've been doing is to get the idea into all drivers' heads is that that "proper gap", when factoring in a vehicle moving into it whilst travelling faster than the traffic in that lane, i.e. immediately closing on the vehicle at the front of that gap, is actually a great deal longer than the majority of them seem to realise.

For example, consider the scenario of the 56mph HGVs in L1, a driver A overtaking them in L2 at 65mph, and a driver B behind him at 70mph wanting him to move over so he can pass.

Assuming that both A and B want to drive safely, then relative to A, B has to cover a distance of 129m before A could pull back out into L2. B has to close his 2 second gap, then there are 2 car lengths (I've assumed 2x4m), then he has to open up A's 2-second gap. 63m+8m+58m = 129m. At his relative speed difference of 5mph, it will take 58 seconds from when A moves left out of B's way until B is far enough past A for A to safely move back out.

So the gap between the 56mph HGVs which B wants A to move into has to be long enough for A to be able to remain in it for 58 seconds. And doing the calculations for that, given a 9mph difference (65mph vs 56mph), means that it has to be 346m long.

Now, I know you're not reading this, but hopefully some people are, because I can promise everyone that there are an awful lot of drivers who simply have no idea about how long a gap has to be for a driver they want to move out of their way to be able to move into safely, and who effectively drive as though they expect other drivers to put themselves in danger and/or slow down.

To whoever is reading this, be honest - if you were driver B above, would you realise that without a gap 346m long, A simply could not move into L1 to let you past without being forced to slow down for you, or drive unsafely for you?

If just one person, instead of rolling their eyes at me "over-analysing" this thinks "I've never thought about that" and does take it on board then it will all have been worthwhile.

 

[morqthana]

There, is where we differ - if L1 is clear, then I will make use of it, irrespective of my speed, providing I wouldn't need to move in, then have to immediately move back out. Sitting in L2, even when doing the 70 limit, causes bunching and congestion, for those behind, trying to use the road. It's none of your business, if other drivers choose to ignore the 70 limit, and do more.

This is another point which Harry won't read, but is still worth making.

A speeding driver has zero rights to expect anybody else to inconvenience themselves, or worse, for their own selfish benefit.

Changing the figures in #102 to 56mph, 70mph, and 80mph, that gap needed for B is 317m. And I, for one, am damned if I'll move out of the way of a speeding driver if it means I have to drive too close to someone else, behind or in front, and/or have to slow down. Even if the gap I'm to move into extends to the horizon, I still won't move into it until there is a 2-second gap behind me.

So from that POV it is very much my business if other drivers choose to ignore the 70 limit and do more.

 

[flameport]

also they have changed the rules on EV chargers so that many are now becoming vehicle make only, so Vauxhall will not be able to use Porsche charging points

That is entirely wrong. No such nonsense exists or has been proposed.

Vehicles use the same connector and the same electricity. A publicly available charge point will work with any vehicle.

 

[ericmark]

That is entirely wrong. No such nonsense exists or has been proposed.

Vehicles use the same connector and the same electricity. A publicly available charge point will work with any vehicle.

Maybe it would work, but the apps are only being offered to in the case of the one I found Porsche only owner will be given access to the app, it would seem if a Porsche owner also had a Vauxhall he could charge his Vauxhall, but by restricting the app, they are getting around the new law.