How would you re-wire/lay out this circuit?

[Hobobanobo]

I want to re wire my lights in the house before I plaster and lay carpet upstairs.
My downstairs lights only consist of 3 blooms. (1 in living room on a 1 gang, and 2 in the kitchen on a 2 gang)
given a clean slate how would this be done?
It has 90s wiring and it very sus. It works. But kitchen lights only work off one switch on the 2 gang and not independently of each other unfortunately.
The kitchen light is looped in with the living room lights currently, and the living room switch pulls power from the kitchen switch. So if one is disconnected, they all drop out. But this is besides the point. I'd show current lay out of wires but I expect that's not useful for a rewire. I can run wires where needed.

I want to re wire from the Consumer unit but not sure what the current set up for a circuit like this would be? So, how would you do it? Can you draw on the image?

Thanks a lot. I look forward to learning a thing or two.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I'd like to encourage you, but this is not like painting by numbers.
More importantly, all new work must comply with the current regulations. Do you know what they are?
Secondly, this new circuit is NOTIFIABLE to the local authority. It is an expensive and difficult process to go through, even for someone who has the knowledge and the required sets of calibrated test equipment (needed for the tests and results to go on the ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION CERTIFICATE.)

As I say, I'd like to encourage you, but your route to success is via a competent and registered electrician. He/she will give you the answers that you seek and may even let you run some cables, under their guidance.
Find some local to you, here: https://electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/

 

[Hobobanobo]

I appreciate the heads up.
But I was under the assumption that general replacements are ok for DIY? Just no NEW circuits?
New lights, new plugs, new switch, new wires are ok as one off fixes?
If I take the... replacing the handle then head on an old brush without calling it a new brush approach. I was thinking it would be ok?
I recently replaced the lights themselves which is why I noticed its old wiring.
I've also re wired the Oven Radial and my house is still standing. And food now cooked. (Cut the 6mm not far from the Consumer unit then re wired from an in line junction box.)
So I figured lights would be easy enough to do too, physically. But I just don't know the ins and outs of the circuit layout. Id be fairly confident safety wise.

More importantly, all new work must comply with the current regulations. Do you know what they are?

I get my new regulation info from google before I do anything. Or I come ask someone more knowledgeable like yourselves.

 

[ericmark]

Forgetting rules and regulations, stage one is what do you want?

Some pointers:-
1) Two sets of lights per room, so three levels of light, 1/3 and 2/3 split works well.
2) Kitchen voice activated switches, so no need to touch them with dirty hands.
3) No need for 2 way switching if voice activated.
4) Lights which can be altered to suit new layouts, on swivel, or lighting track.
5) Way to turn off all lights with one action when leaving the room. (Voice works well for this).

So there is the Nest Mini or Alexa as two main voice systems. And once you get one, your then tied to it. I have Nest Mini, son has Alexa seem about the same.

So you look at aim in say 5 years time, then buy stuff which will integrate.

I didn't plan, so 4 makes for central heating, same with lighting, also sockets and socket adaptors.

So look at goal, then slowly get closer to the goal, remember 3 x 12W smart bulbs with B22 bases is far cheaper to 9 x 3 watt down lights. And the white ceiling reflects and spreads the light, dark floors aborsb it.

So work out what will suit you, and your life style.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Forgetting rules and regulations, stage one is what do you want?

Some pointers:-
1) Two sets of lights per room, so three levels of light, 1/3 and 2/3 split works well.
2) Kitchen voice activated switches, so no need to touch them with dirty hands.
3) No need for 2 way switching if voice activated.
4) Lights which can be altered to suit new layouts, on swivel, or lighting track.
5) Way to turn off all lights with one action when leaving the room. (Voice works well for this).

So there is the Nest Mini or Alexa as two main voice systems. And once you get one, your then tied to it. I have Nest Mini, son has Alexa seem about the same.

So you look at aim in say 5 years time, then buy stuff which will integrate.

I didn't plan, so 4 makes for central heating, same with lighting, also sockets and socket adaptors.

So look at goal, then slowly get closer to the goal, remember 3 x 12W smart bulbs with B22 bases is far cheaper to 9 x 3 watt down lights. And the white ceiling reflects and spreads the light, dark floors aborsb it.

So work out what will suit you, and your life style.

I am trying to future proof where possible with other things in the house. But didnt extend this to the lighting. So thanks for the extra thinking now required. Didnt even cross my mind to do voice activated I like it. But my other half will likely tell me to just get on with the normal stuff.
Pluss I hate having too many smart devices in my house. The FBI will only find me faster that way. :0
I expect fancy set ups require fancy wiring. So I will go research a little. I expect I may need some advice once I know exactly what I am doing.

I was more concerned originally with getting power to where it is needed what type of cables etc.
If I do go basic lighting I wasn't sure how to wire it up. As in do I run power through the lights and then to the switch, or to the switch then the lights etc. Link one room to another via the swith as it is now etc.

Thanks

 

[SUNRAY]

You say old wiring.

How old? rubber? Red/black wires in PVC sheath? Does it need rewiring?

The big one; does it have earth wires at each point?

 

[Taylortwocities]

But I was under the assumption that general replacements are ok for DIY

Yes. Replacing a light switch for another switch. Adding another socket to an existing circuit. etc
Its generally known as "like for like" although the term does not exist in building regulations.

You are planning to

re wire from the Consumer unit

that is a NEW CIRCUIT. The characteristics of it will not be that same as the existing.

You say old wiring.

How old? rubber? Red/black wires in PVC sheath? Does it need rewiring?

The big one; does it have earth wires at each point?

Have a look at some of his other posts..
A lot is old

Please help. Light curcuit issue (Diagram attached)

(Colour coded cables were for my pairing excercise, not to state what colour the wire is. All wires red. Switched lives were black. Earths on the power supply line) After changing a light fitting and switch in kitchen where I didnt take photos first. I spent the day trying to work out why my...

www.diynot.com

 

[Hobobanobo]

You say old wiring.

How old? rubber? Red/black wires in PVC sheath? Does it need rewiring?

The big one; does it have earth wires at each point?

There is black rubber wires under the floor cut, but given I didn't die when I licked it. I assumed it was very old and someone was lazy and left old junction boxes in place under the floors...
Unrelated but I did panic when I saw rubber wires cut leading to junction boxes. Lazy workmanship leaving laying all over the house. this lazy workmanship makes me want to rewires what else they may have bodged.

But in regard to the light circuit. 1993 by the look of it. Some wires now getting short and hard to work with as obviously been cut a few times for new lights etc over the years. Some of the copper ends seem to be pretty oxidized so I have scrubbed them clean. and yes seems to be earths where needed. Just general wear and tear I dont wan tot plaster them in and fix new floors down only to have to change it again later.
Pluss having a 2 gang with only one switch activating the 2 lights is irritating.

 

[Hobobanobo]

that is a NEW CIRCUIT. The characteristics of it will not be that same as the existing.

I suppose.
What happens if I don't notify? Just out of curiosity

 

[Taylortwocities]

I suppose.
What happens if I don't notify? Just out of curiosity

Then, when you come to sell the house, and searches are done. the buyer goes to LABC for records of electrical work done.
Or you lie on the request form where you have to detail if any electrical work had been carried out. You just say no, and that's fraud.
Or, worse, your installation that you learned how to do via Google (most of it is wrong) catches fire.......that might be Mrs Hobobanobo stuck upstairs as the blaze takes hold, or the little Hobobanobos. Still wanna risk it?

I'm out bye.

 

[flameport]

What happens if I don't notify? Just out of curiosity

You have obviously decided to blunder ahead anyway, regardless of any advice provided.

This forum is not the place for your enquires.

 

[thomp1983]

By the letter of the rules if you don't touch the cable between the consumer unit and the first rose/switch (depending on how it's wired) then you can do anything you like after that so if that first cable is in good condition then you can 'rewire' the rest of the circuit from there.

 

[ericmark]

I don't want to debate what is a new circuit, that is one for courts to decide.

The wiring needs to be so line and neutral always pass though the same hole in any ferris unit.

The debate as to using switch box as junction box, or ceiling rose as junction box can get heated, there is no right or wrong. Using 3 core and earth for switch drops instead of twin and earth gets around most problems.

The question was about loop impedance, lamp to lamp with drops to switches gave a better loop impedance, but the capacitive and inductive linking is now becoming a problem with LED lamps.

The way we wired lights could be called near enough engineering, at university we were taught about impedance and correctly terminating cables, but really that is only required with high frequency as used with radio 300 ohm ribbon and aerials, at 50 Hz we tend to ignore it.

I have smart relays, switches, and bulbs. Each has plus and minus features. Smart bulb does not only dim, but changes colour or colour temperature as well.

A discussion could go on page after page as to best method. But this is unlikely to help you.

 

[Adam_151]

My downstairs lights only consist of 3 blooms.

Is that what happens when you ask for bulbs for them instead of lamps?

 

[Hobobanobo]

Then, when you come to sell the house, and searches are done. the buyer goes to LABC for records of electrical work done.
Or you lie on the request form where you have to detail if any electrical work had been carried out. You just say no, and that's fraud.
Or, worse, your installation that you learned how to do via Google (most of it is wrong) catches fire.......that might be Mrs Hobobanobo stuck upstairs as the blaze takes hold, or the little Hobobanobos. Still wanna risk it?

I'm out bye.

Appreciate the reply regarding this. I was just curious. I didnt ask when moving in and perhaps should have done as a lot of regs were not followed. Wires buried diagonally across room etc, old live wiring just cut under the floors etc.
I will get someone to come look once its done. Getting hold of a sparky to come look at residential has been near impossible. Seems like nobody can be bothered with it. Hence the DIY.