How would you re-wire/lay out this circuit?

[Hobobanobo]

Is that what happens when you ask for bulbs for them instead of lamps?

I thought light fittings were known as blooms, is it rose? Ill stick to calling them lights.

 

[Hobobanobo]

By the letter of the rules if you don't touch the cable between the consumer unit and the first rose/switch (depending on how it's wired) then you can do anything you like after that so if that first cable is in good condition then you can 'rewire' the rest of the circuit from there.

I will likely be dong this then, if I can work out from the many junction boxes under the floor where it runs from...
I will get it looked at once done to be safe.
Thanks.

 

[Hobobanobo]

You have obviously decided to blunder ahead anyway, regardless of any advice provided.

This forum is not the place for your enquires.

I have to ask. Seems like I can do it so long as its looked at and approved after, pre plastering.

 

[Hobobanobo]

I don't want to debate what is a new circuit, that is one for courts to decide.

The wiring needs to be so line and neutral always pass though the same hole in any ferris unit.

The debate as to using switch box as junction box, or ceiling rose as junction box can get heated, there is no right or wrong. Using 3 core and earth for switch drops instead of twin and earth gets around most problems.

The question was about loop impedance, lamp to lamp with drops to switches gave a better loop impedance, but the capacitive and inductive linking is now becoming a problem with LED lamps.

The way we wired lights could be called near enough engineering, at university we were taught about impedance and correctly terminating cables, but really that is only required with high frequency as used with radio 300 ohm ribbon and aerials, at 50 Hz we tend to ignore it.

I have smart relays, switches, and bulbs. Each has plus and minus features. Smart bulb does not only dim, but changes colour or colour temperature as well.

A discussion could go on page after page as to best method. But this is unlikely to help you.

Seems like there is much to study then first.
Thanks for the info. I will look into the things you mentioned before planning. This is what I was after as I didn't know the correct wording etc.

Thanks

 

[Murdochcat]

I will likely be dong this then, if I can work out from the many junction boxes under the floor where it runs from...
I will get it looked at once done to be safe.
Thanks.

Junction boxes under the floors - more alarm bells

Modern circuits, wired properly don’t have any junction boxes at all. All connections are at accessories

 

[Hobobanobo]

Junction boxes under the floors - more alarm bells

Modern circuits, wired properly don’t have any junction boxes at all. All connections are at accessories

Oh, another reason I need to rewire then.
From what I saw there was about 3 dotted under the floorboard upstairs hallway. I assumed its to split the upstairs/ downstairs socket wiring, its 2.5 twin and earth. 4 coming from each round junction and running off to other rooms etc. I think there is one used for the lights too. I'm sure one of the single live wires from the light switch runs into one, and then off to the other lights. Need to rip all my boards up to follow them...

 

[Murdochcat]

You need it professionally rewired ….

 

[Hobobanobo]

You need it professionally rewired ….

I cant do it myself and have a sparky come look and say yep all good?

 

[ericmark]

Is that what happens when you ask for bulbs for them instead of lamps?

A lamp is the whole unit, we would before electric have a lamp fixed on a spigot on the wall, and we used the same with a bicycle, and steam train even when they had steam turbines for lighting, the position of the lamps and colour showed type of train and front or rear, today the spigot to mount lamps only found on heritage railways, but it seems lamp, fitting, and luminaires all refer to the whole unit, and the mantle, wick, bulb or tube refers to the bit within the whole unit which wears out with time.

As to DIY, mothers house, we installed a wet room, all done in a hurry, had to be ready when she came home, and the builder ran off, so we were forced to DIY and get involved with LABC to register the work, lucky since due to her new disability no charge, but normally in Wales, it is £100 plus VAT for first £2000 worth of work, plus any charges for third party inspections, lucky I held C&G 2391 etc, so my installation certificate was accepted, however they can insist not powered up until inspected and tested, and this is the main problem, they are allowed two weeks to complete each inspection, so it can add a month to the time taken, and with power off, clearly can't live in the house while the work is being done.

So to employ a scheme member electrical firm, when whole house rewired latter, resulted in it only taking a week, any extra expense not doing it DIY was more than paid back in the reduction in rest bite care bills at way over £500 a week. Also the testers, even the cheapest I can find, looking at around £150 and these are not calibrated, to hire because they need calibration is also expensive, they should be calibrated after each hire.

The installation certificate can have one or three signatures, and can be split into design, installation and inspection and testing, and you really need to show you have the skill, yes I know in the main homes are wired following the same design used for hundreds of other homes, but still one has to consider how to modify slightly for each home. So one can't really follow a plan made up over a forum, the regulations book is large, as is the HSE regulations and building control, around 18 months ago the firm fitting the solar panels wanted to fit the battery in the loft, I said no and had it fitted in old garage, but today they are not allowed to fit it in the loft, and it is hard to keep up with rule changes.

The worst is clarification, where it is realised people have not done what was expected, so it is clarified, BS 7671 is not retrospective, so when there is a change, you don't have to return to bring it to latest standard, but when clarified then that's not a change, so it's a problem where the certificate of compliance is clearly incorrect.

 

[flameport]

I cant do it myself and have a sparky come look and say yep all good?

No.

The only realistic option is to get an electrician to rewire it.

or if you insist on doing it yourself properly, you will have to notify building control before starting anything, pay the notification fee which is likely be be a few £100s, and then they will want to know how you will be proving it complies with the relevant regulations, and when you can't answer that or provide the appropriate certificate with test results they may charge you a few more £100s for someone to visit and inspect the work until they have decent evidence that it's done properly - or they may just tell you to get an electrician to do it.

 

[Hobobanobo]

No.

The only realistic option is to get an electrician to rewire it.

or if you insist on doing it yourself properly, you will have to notify building control before starting anything, pay the notification fee which is likely be be a few £100s, and then they will want to know how you will be proving it complies with the relevant regulations, and when you can't answer that or provide the appropriate certificate with test results they may charge you a few more £100s for someone to visit and inspect the work until they have decent evidence that it's done properly - or they may just tell you to get an electrician to do it.

Urgh, well if that's the right way to do it then so be it. Just annoying finding a sparky to do it.

So lets say I buy a house. And I want a certificate because it looks like the previous owner has done some rewiring (all be it decent quality but no paperwork to say it was signed off)
I would then get a sparky to come test it and give me a certificate?
Surely that happens a lot? Where the previous owner did some rewiring DIY.


Not saying that I will do the work and claim to the tester that I found it that way, but again, just being curious. I expect that happens a lot. Must be sparkies out there that have witnessed that.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So lets say I buy a house. And I want a certificate ...

Why would you want a certificate?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would then get a sparky to come test it and give me a certificate?

Different kind of certificate because he cannot see through floorboards and walls.

 

[Hobobanobo]

Why would you want a certificate?

This is my point I suppose. Apart from a safety perspective, but it it all looks ok and works I don't care about the paperwork. If I ever sold it, the buyer might.

My thinking is that there is no difference between moving into a house that had this DIY work done prior to my moving in, and me doing it when I move in.
If it needs testing when I move in, its the same thing. As far as the process for the sparky. Of course one situation is a lie if I did the work and said I found it like that. The other is not my fault it was done by some random dude prior to moving in.

But if its done right either way, its would be signed off in the same way? And much cheaper than paying a qualified sparky to rewire it all?(But again, perhaps not safer)

Different kind of certificate because he cannot see through floorboards and walls.

True, I may need to go read up on these tests and certificates and why they are needed (aside from my own health and safety)

 

[Ragnar_AT]

You might find a spark who‘s happy to let you do all the dirty work like chasing, lifting floor boards, etc.. The spark then does the first fix (runs the cables and fixes the back boxes), you do all the plastering, put the floor boards back and once the decorating is done, the spark fits the accessories, tests everything and connects it to the mains.