I am a republican... but

[opps]

Remembering for a moment that we're all just a bag of chemicals which evolution has formed in a particular way, it would make sense for developed emotions, to encourage group activity and care for each other.
But evolution also gives us the power of rational independent thought, and the ability to alter our feelings about things. We can and do conrol our emotions, and change them over a period.
That quickly gets into the philosophy of morality and how it steers us. The point is that we can recognise that we have "animal emotions" but we can work out what to do based on a deeper belief system. For some that's a cosy off-the-shelf one (religion), for others not.

Accumulating with other people in certain situations may be comforting at some level for some, but something to avoid for others.

I wouldn't say that I would avoid it, but I have reached the stage in my life where I don't feel it necessary to buy my preferred football team's shirt to watch them play. I don't feel like I need affirmation from fellow supporters. My lack of purchase has no bearing on my disappointment if (read: when) they lose.

 

[Justin Passing]

I remember the "Free Deirdre Rachid" campaign in 1998. I didn't buy the T-shirt, perhaps I really am a sociopath devoid of feelings for others.

If devoid, you'd be a psychopath! Not as bad as people tend to believe.
Even if you have no such feelings, you can still decide what works best, in how you treat others. It's an approach to life which endows much clarity of thought.
Again, you can learn to be one, but not many are born that way.

 

[Justin Passing]

I wouldn't say that I would avoid it, but I have reached the stage in my life where I don't feel it necessary to buy my preferred football team's shirt to watch them play. I don't feel like I need affirmation from fellow supporters. My lack of purchase has no bearing on my disappointment if (read: when) they lose.

Maybe that's why some of us "can't understand" football fervour. What is it about "supporting" an ever-changing group of (mostly freign) people because of the colour of their shirt?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Never really seen the point of that - who is to know or care if you do or don't, apart from you?

That is of course fine. You're not wrong, people who do it are not wrong.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

If no one else did it, would they still show up to watch the hearse go by - I would think not

You're not making any sense with comments like that. For the sake of discussion, let's say over a 1 mile stretch of road 2000 people have gathered to watch the coffin procession go by. Those 2000 people aren't one homogenous group, they've not all come from the same massive house. They've gathered from hundreds of different places, having made their own decisions to go and pay their respects. Once they are there, the individuals of course make up a larger group.

Yes, there might be a degree of 'oh look at the tv, hundreds have gathered on Smith Street to see the Queen's coffin, that's just 5 mins down the road, let's go!' however that's not how everyone finds themselves becoming part of a larger group.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp, however for some on here it seems to be.

 

[opps]

Maybe that's why some of us "can't understand" football fervour. What is it about "supporting" an ever-changing group of (mostly freign) people because of the colour of their shirt?

One of my "girlfriends" once asked why anyone would support a team over others. I couldn't justify my support of my preferred team. Since then, my "fervour" has waned (helped by the fact that we are now in the lower leagues).

 

[opps]

For the sake of discussion, let's say over a 1 mile stretch of road 2000 people have gathered to watch the coffin procession go by. Those 2000 people aren't one homogenous group, they've not all come from the same massive house. They've gathered from hundreds of different places, having made their own decisions to go and pay their respects. Once they are there, the individuals of course make up a larger group.

Mob mentality? There have been numerous cases of educated doctors in India joining mobs that dragged muslims accused of crimes out of their home and beating them to death before setting fire to them. And the same happens in Pakistan. Closer to home, we witnessed the Trump supporters storming the Capitol and people in London looting Poundshops during the 2011 riots. Few of the above people would have acted that way if they were on their own.

 

[ellal]

It can be argued the high majority of 'the herd' have, at some point, thought for themselves, as individuals, from different locations, and decided they want to go to x place to pay their respects. When they get there, x 100s/1000s are also there, having reached the same decision. Call it herd mentality if you like, however it doesn't mean there wasn't individual thought at some point in the process.

I might find out a local person has died and, in light of all the good work they did for the community, their coffin will be driven through the local area. As an individual, sitting in my own home, I decide to go to one of the locations to pay my respects. When I get there, 200 other people have made the same decision. Not entirely convinced that makes us a 'herd' of people who can't think for ourselves.

How many of the people thronging to London in the hope of getting a glimpse of a coffin do you suppose knew the queen as a person?

Because it seems to me that many are clinging to an institution rather that the individual in question...

And why is that?

Indoctrination because 'this is the way we do things'?

I wouldn't cry over or wish to attend the funeral of any of your relatives, so why should I bother about the late queen?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Mob mentality? There have been numerous cases of educated doctors in India joining mobs that dragged muslims accused of crimes out of their home and beating them to death before setting fire to them. And the same happens in Pakistan. Closer to home, we witnessed the Trump supporters storming the Capitol and people in London looting Poundshops during the 2011 riots. Few of the above people would have acted that way if they were on their own.

Oh for goodness sake, you're evidently one of 'them' on here. Bringing in extremely tenuous arguments to keep your baseless viewpoint going ... and going ... and going. Forum merry-go-round. No thanks. In this thread, bye

 

[diy_fun_uk]

How many of the people thronging to London in the hope of getting a glimpse of a coffin do you suppose knew the queen as a person?
Because it seems to me that many are clinging to an institution rather that the individual in question...
And why is that?
Indoctrination because 'this is the way we do things'?
I wouldn't cry over or wish to attend the funeral of any of your relatives, so why should I bother about the late queen?

No one's asking you to bother for goodness sake. Do what the feck you like. You're in the same mould as some others on here. Bringing in baseless arguments, raising faux counter arguments (faux because no one actually argued the point in the first place) or simply downright trolling to keep the argument going. We're never going to agree so, as with my reply to opps, in this thread ... bye

 

[securespark]

A perk of the job - like the billions stashed away in offshore accounts by politicians and businessmen.

It ****es me off royally (excuse the pun) that the tax payment system that is designed so that everyone is intended to contribute based on amount of earnings is deliberately built with loopholes that allow certain people or businesses to pay less or in some cases, no tax. It is perverse that on the one hand HMRC refuses to insist that those few that can most afford to contribute, do. Yet on the other, they are hammering the millions of much smaller contributors for every last penny.

And don't get me started on all the take-aways that insist on cash payments.

If HMRC went round all of those, I'm sure they would discover "irregularities" at a great many of them.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Mob mentality? There have been numerous cases of educated doctors in India joining mobs that dragged muslims accused of crimes out of their home and beating them to death before setting fire to them. And the same happens in Pakistan. Closer to home, we witnessed the Trump supporters storming the Capitol and people in London looting Poundshops during the 2011 riots. Few of the above people would have acted that way if they were on their own.

Yep, people do like to be part of what everyone else is seeming to be doing, just look at the how people follow fashions and no matter how silly. I remember when a fashion went through local schools, where kids got it into their heads to fold their trousers over at the belt - logical - no, practical again no, but others were doing it so do the same.

 

[cwhaley]

I'm a republican and I while I'm not mourning her death, I certainly won't be celebrating. I didn't know her so I can't feel sad nor do I think she performed any real duties or services (cutting ribbons and being the ceremonial head of charities doesn't count!)

She was the same age as my Grandmother was which reminds me of her a little bit (she was a huge fan of the Queen), so I get some of the sadness some people might feel due to her being connected to so many generations. I don't get the level of disruption her death has caused however. I don't get people stood crying in the street. I remember an 11 year old doing it in 2002 when the Queen's mother died. Crying.... in the street...

I've learnt a lot over the past few days how intolerant people are of differing opinion and free speech. As others have, being arrested for asking who elected the latest king! I've found it impossible to promote any sort of intelligent response to my arguments against the monarchy as people seem to be blinded by an unrelenting love of all things royal. One person said off-hand that the Queen loved animals, and despite me pointing out the fact that she participated in and supported so many forms of hunting (as well as watching and enjoying the racing of horses), this person still believed that she was "just a lovely old woman" who loved nature. Others have said she's served us, but other than being in her role for so long I cannot think of a single useful function (as head of state!) that she has performed. People just will not accept debate on them and its damned scary.

I fell out with the idea of them in my early teens (as my Grandfather did, when he overheard a minor royal visiting the local town and referring to the locals as "living in sh*t"). I despise everything about them -- their incredible and unjustified wealth, their meddling in government, their total lack of relevance in the modern world and their involvement in and covering up of many 'dodgy things'.

Kings, Queens and fairy godmothers belong in fairytales.

 

[opps]

Oh for goodness sake, you're evidently one of 'them' on here. Bringing in extremely tenuous arguments to keep your baseless viewpoint going ... and going ... and going. Forum merry-go-round. No thanks. In this thread, bye

I was simply citing examples where people engage in activities that they know to be wrong but feel empowered to do do once they see others doing the same. In no way am I suggesting that the people that waited outside RAF Northolt have desire to break the law, but I also believe that the people in the examples given would not have acted the way that they did if they were not observing others doing it.

Some people seem to be more susceptible to "following the crowd than others".

 

[wellyfish]

How many of the people thronging to London in the hope of getting a glimpse of a coffin do you suppose knew the queen as a person?

Because it seems to me that many are clinging to an institution rather that the individual in question...

And why is that?

Indoctrination because 'this is the way we do things'?

I wouldn't cry over or wish to attend the funeral of any of your relatives, so why should I bother about the late queen?

"Cultural hegemony is most strongly manifested when those ruled by the dominant group come to believe that the economic and social conditions of their society are natural and inevitable, rather than created by people with a vested interest in particular social, economic, and political orders."